Thread: Obama appeals to public to support class warfare

Originally Posted by goober

Tax cuts or tax increases for the wealthy have very little effect on jobs.
Clinton increased taxes on the wealthy, and 22 million jobs were created. Bush cut taxes for the wealthy, and private sector employment was the same the day he left office as the day he took office.

But that's what really happened, it's not supported by the dogma.

The wealthy already pay far more than their share of taxes. If you want to talk of raising taxes, we should raise taxes on the 47% of people that don't currently pay any income taxes. Enough freeloading, time to have them "put some skin in the game", as Uh-Bama put it.

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Let me see if I have this right. Obama is looking to upset his own party and supporters by agreeing to cuts on things typically his party holds onto, all he wants in return is some changes to the tax levels enjoyed by "job creaters" who are not creating any jobs right now anyway (with reason of course,) and Obama is the only one playing class warfare. Is that the position of the Republicans?

Originally Posted by Forplay

No you have it wrong, Obama is not willing to cut one dime in cuts unless he can raise taxes. Think about it, what has he been willing to cut without an increase on taxes? Nothing. Dem's are not about cutting anything.

You actually read this before you posted it? I had to include my original for reference you responded to.

Of course Obama wants tax revenue to go up, in exchange for the proposed cuts. It is absent of any logic at all to assume we can spending cut only our way through this at this point. Even the Republicans now need a debt ceiling increase as no plan from them gets us off of debt spending for the foreseeable future. So what do you propose since neither party can offer a plan to get us off of debt spending and at this stage it is beyond clear they both need more debt ceiling to maneuver? In this case (appreciate this as a non Obama supporter) Obama is on the right path looking for both spending cuts and tax increases. It is the only fiscally responsible thing to do now. Both, not one under some blind assumption it will work for that large gap between tax revenue and spending that your own Republicans cannot figure out and were a great contributer to. Why the hell should Obama just start cuts only when it is clear the best Republicans themselves can cut still need more debt spending room, thus a raise to the debt limit. Your Republicans cannot do this on their own, which partly explains the "punt" proposal trying to remove themselves from the very situation they not only cannot figure out on their own but played a key role in making happen.

Speak of, they were happy to raise the ceiling under Bush's time, quite a few times as even then they could not act then in a fiscally responsible manner any more than they are trying to sell you they are today (including whatever FoxNews is trying to sell for them in support.) The fact is Republicans need the debt ceiling to go up, yet not a damn one of them will admit it. But, will with eagerness play the political game of "no raise in taxes" and class warfare which by default also discards any and all fiscal responsibility. For a little over a decade now they have, with pride and ignorance, displayed this well.

Originally Posted by jpn

Class warfare?

The right squeals "class warfare" any time someone points out that the rich and powerful are cleaning our clock in their never-ending efforts to secure larger and larger shares of our nation's wealth.

Here's the average tax payed by Americans in different income groups:

Those are only facts and figures and have no relevence when compared to idoelogical talking points like "class warfare". If you want to respond in kind, then you need to create a conservative strawman figure and attack him they way the right attacks "libs".

Originally Posted by 9aces

Well Obama has never made a payroll, or run anything, anywhere in the private sector so it's really not surprising he doesn't understand the business owner at all.

I am sure Sean Hannity appreciates you reciting one of his talking points.

Originally Posted by jpn

Class warfare?

The right squeals "class warfare" any time someone points out that the rich and powerful are cleaning our clock in their never-ending efforts to secure larger and larger shares of our nation's wealth.

Here's the average tax payed by Americans in different income groups:

There has definitely been a narrowing of the difference in tax rates paid, but there is still a long ways to go before equality is achieved.

Hey, I'm just glad the President's appealing to the public. I'd been under the impression he forgot about us. This has been the most insider Presidency I've ever seen. For a guy with so much charisma, he almost never goes to the people.

Originally Posted by natstew

Bullfuckingshit! They turned it down because it called for raising taxes now and cutting spending down the road. Once the Democrats got the taxes raised they would never allow a reduction in spending. The Republicans were screwed this way under Reagan and again under G.H.W. Bush.

No. The tax hikes wouldn't begin until 2013. Obama doesn't want to see taxes hiked until the economy is growing again.

So that excuse is out the window.

Got another?

So the nothing would happen at all, ever. Obama hasn't even bound himself to his OWN budget plan. Why would we expect him to honor his commitment to a compromise long term budget?

Unless cuts start now, there's nothing to talk about. Republicans should raise the debt limit and schedule it to come up for a revote in summer 2012. Let's have this be a campaign issue.

Originally Posted by Forplay

Yes it is amazing that you Dem's are not willing to cut one dime of spending without more taxes. That is Amazing.

Less amazing if you let your ideology go for a minute and just look at the facts.



Spending has averaged around 20 to 22 percent of GDP.
Revenues tanked with the Bush tax cuts and plunged after the Great Recession. Then spending rose on automatic stabilizers and policies like the Recovery Act.

The fact is that deficits in recent decades are mostly the result of cutting revenues rather than raising spending, while the only surplus [more precisely, the only time revenues per GDP exceeded outlays per GDP] came after the Democrats' tax hike of 1993.

Originally Posted by adaher

Unless cuts start now, there's nothing to talk about. Republicans should raise the debt limit and schedule it to come up for a revote in summer 2012. Let's have this be a campaign issue.

You're pretty out of touch with popular sentiment. The public overwhelmingly supports a compromise rather than the GOP's absolutist position.

Cutting spending while the economy is in danger of sliding back into recession and unemployment is over 9% is a policy only those who deliberately want to sabotage the economy would seriously entertain.