Thread: Earth has suffered irreversible damage

Originally Posted by Chiquita

Blind support? From someone who is defending a MONARCHY? Give me a break. You cannot deny their history or what they have done to people. It is important to them to hang on so future generations can gain power again. They are not gone they are just resting.

As for supporting my country. You betcha. America right or wrong. And if I don't agree with what she does I vote. I don't bash her.

defending a monarchy?

where did you see that?



chiquita - my country right or wrong doesn't sit well if you know whats been done in the name of national pride and patriotism. have a look at history. do you really think your people/nation is so special that it CAN'T make those kinds of mistakes?

wrong is wrong. whether its your government, my government, Saddam Hussein or the Third Reich that's doing it. and using national pride as an excuse to justify heinous crimes will not stand up as far as future generations are concerned. Germany has learn't that - and I hope the people of America are capable of realizing that before their nation becomes as bad.

And honey - people in democracies vote. you don't have a monopoly on that - but it is not the only way of letting your government know you are not happy with its policies. If you button your lip against criticism of the government you may as well be living in a totalitarian state.

Originally Posted by Chiquita

Bad policy hell. This thread is about the environment. A review of this thread finds you malicious in your comments toward America and it also finds that you country is the worst of all.

You are just here to be malicious toward my country.

per capita, yes, and per capita we produce more than you do too.

however, the fact is, you talk to the vast majority of Australians and they don't deny that human activity is the most likely (although not proven) cause of the climate change we are experiencing. Many people, include those who vote for the current government for a range of other reasons, are critical of the government's stance on Kyoto.

yet I keep hearing this American voice, of which yours is a prime example, which not only prefers to keep its head in the sand about the global reality of what is happening, but also regards concern over environmental issues as an attack on the US.

you can say what you like about me being malicious chiquita, but it is you who uses an aggressive domineering tone in your posts - not me.

Originally Posted by daisym

defending a monarchy?

where did you see that?



chiquita - my country right or wrong doesn't sit well if you know whats been done in the name of national pride and patriotism. have a look at history. do you really think your people/nation is so special that it CAN'T make those kinds of mistakes?

wrong is wrong. whether its your government, my government, Saddam Hussein or the Third Reich that's doing it. and using national pride as an excuse to justify heinous crimes will not stand up as far as future generations are concerned. Germany has learn't that - and I hope the people of America are capable of realizing that before their nation becomes as bad.

And honey - people in democracies vote. you don't have a monopoly on that - but it is not the only way of letting your government know you are not happy with its policies. If you button your lip against criticism of the government you may as well be living in a totalitarian state.

Try to imagine how little I care what some self-righteous hag on the other side of the world thinks about me or my country. All you want is someone to stomp and their wealth.

Originally Posted by spook

Chiquita is funny, she makes me laugh.

Laugh with her or at her?

(I think her posts are so ridiculous, its not even funny anymore)

Originally Posted by Chiquita

As for supporting my country. You betcha. America right or wrong. And if I don't agree with what she does I vote. I don't bash her.

This is the healthy attitude Im always pleased to see.

Just a question Chic: If Bush decided to nuke some country, say Finland, because he claimed that the Finns had supported a conspiracy to murder him, but he didnt actually have any proof to give, would you still support your governments actions? And if later on they would find out that Finns had nothing to do with the conspiracy would you still support the government without any critisism until the next election?

In my opinion people that are behind something so strongly that they dont accept valid critisism towards it are dangerous. These are the people who give birth to dictatorships and genocides.

Ps. Sorry for being off-topic, but it seems this conversation doesnt have much to do with environment anymore anyways.

Originally Posted by Rudy-T

This is the healthy attitude Im always pleased to see.

Just a question Chic: If Bush decided to nuke some country, say Finland, because he claimed that the Finns had supported a conspiracy to murder him, but he didnt actually have any proof to give, would you still support your governments actions? And if later on they would find out that Finns had nothing to do with the conspiracy would you still support the government without any critisism until the next election?

In my opinion people that are behind something so strongly that they dont accept valid critisism towards it are dangerous. These are the people who give birth to dictatorships and genocides.

Ps. Sorry for being off-topic, but it seems this conversation doesnt have much to do with environment anymore anyways.

What exactly do you want? I don't hear any of you saying anything negative about your own land. That is all you want here. Someone to bash this country right along with you. Well guess what, I am not going to.

As for proof of what is or is not in a foreign country. Any foreign country. It is not my place to go look under rocks to check out every word that is said about it. For all the criticism of Bush you have, and I will qualifiy that I am not a Bush fan OR a Kerry fan, he was not the only one who believed there were WMDs in Iraq. He could not go to war without congress. So why aren't you putting the pressue where it belongs. On the person YOU elected who went right along with him. The fault is as much YOURS as it is Bush's.

Your criticism of me and my country simply is not valid. And your implications are totally ridiculous. I have the right to my opinion. And thank God, this is America where you can't take me out and have me shot for them, for it is quite clear many on here would if you could just figure out where to find me.

As for being behind something so strongly one does not accept criticism. What about people like you who hate a country so much that you can't see any good it it. People who stand up FOR something aren't at much risk of tearing it down. People who spout the hateful rhetoric like yours work themselves into a frenzy and try to destroy. But then that is exactly what you are doing here verbally. Physically won't be far behind once the frenzy catches on.

Originally Posted by Chiquita

What exactly do you want? I don't hear any of you saying anything negative about your own land. That is all you want here. Someone to bash this country right along with you. Well guess what, I am not going to.

I would be more than willing to critisise the actions of my countrys government here, but Im quite sure nobody is interested. If you want to talk with me about Finnish politics Im open to discussion.

Outside this forum I do critisise the politicians in my country a lot. For one I think they are doing a wonderfull job of tearing down our university system. The education in elementary schools seems to be working well right now, but with the current diraction they are taking, Im sure even that will be history soon. And the universities in Finland will soon be nothing more than a joke if the government keeps its course (more people get into universities than they can afford to educate).

As for proof of what is or is not in a foreign country. Any foreign country. It is not my place to go look under rocks to check out every word that is said about it. For all the criticism of Bush you have, and I will qualifiy that I am not a Bush fan OR a Kerry fan, he was not the only one who believed there were WMDs in Iraq. He could not go to war without congress. So why aren't you putting the pressue where it belongs. On the person YOU elected who went right along with him. The fault is as much YOURS as it is Bush's.

I have no idea what all this has to do with Bush or Iraq, but if you want to take that road, I can tell you that the person I elected was against the war and so was my country. Finland (as most Europian countries) opposed attacking Iraq all along. So its not our fault US and UK made that mistake. But I do think we should have been even more vocal about our own objection at the time.

Your criticism of me and my country simply is not valid.

What critisism are pointing at here? I dont even remember critisising your country in this thread? I critisised your logic.

And if my critisism isnt valid, you can prove that to me by refuting it. Not by calling me dirty europian anti-american.

And your implications are totally ridiculous. I have the right to my opinion.

Yes you have. And so do I. And in my opinion being behind something so strongly that you dont allow any critisism towards it, is just plain cowardness. There is valid and not so valid critisism towards US (or any other country for that matter) and I think you should think and judge yourself what you consider to be valid. Not write everything down as invalid.

And thank God, this is America where you can't take me out and have me shot for them, for it is quite clear many on here would if you could just figure out where to find me.

Yeah. Because we disagree with you, we all want to shoot you. And of course that is allowed in Europe where we have no laws. Grow up.

(btw. we have that free speech here outside US too)

As for being behind something so strongly one does not accept criticism. What about people like you who hate a country so much that you can't see any good it it.

Where did you get that? What have I said to make you think I hate US and cant see anything good about it?

Ive visited US three times in last year. I didnt come there because I hate the place. I did like many things in there (comedy clubs, manhattan in general, pro-sports, people in NY). And on the other hand didnt like many things (Atlanta as a city, the food poisoning I got from NY ). I also have friends in US and in anyway do not despise you people as a group. My hate towards your country is something you have invented to protect you from actually trying to discuss any issues.

People who stand up FOR something aren't at much risk of tearing it down. People who spout the hateful rhetoric like yours work themselves into a frenzy and try to destroy. But then that is exactly what you are doing here verbally. Physically won't be far behind once the frenzy catches on.

I am in no way trying to spout any hateful rhetoric. Im here to discuss politics. Mostly american related politics as this forum is mainly for it, but I do discuss other interesting issues also. Of course I do disagree with your government on many issues, but so do many americans. The fact that my opinions are not like opinions of a good rebublican doesnt make me anti-american.

Originally Posted by Chiquita

I can vote for the CHANGE in the head of state and you cannot.

But, the Queen has no power Chiquita as is pointed out to you again and again. The elected members of the houses of parliment are where the decisions are made, and yes, I can vote to change them if I please.

Also, the Queen fulfills the role of head of the Commonwealth. No country within the commonwealth is forced to stay, it is a organisation of collective interests, which helps many people around the world to unite and celebrate the diversity of it's members.

Also, you seem to miss the point that the Monarchy (whether you like it or not) is a fundamental part of the history of the British Isles and is only there now for ceremonial purposes and as a monument to our national pride and traditions. To delude yourself that they are plotting to take back power is paranoid and only another example of your complete inability to understand the outside world.

You cannot dethrone that frumpy queen.

At this present time, there is no national call for the monarchy to be disbanded and until then you have to accept that she is there with our blessing.

At least our Queen is able to master the English language Chiquita. You jealous or something? She is an old lady, fulfilling the role she was raised groomed to fill. How can you be so angry against her?

And for the record, I'm an anti-monarchist, but I understand and treasure the crown of England, cause it is inherently entwined with the history of my country.

She and her inbred, immoral progeny are going to be there no matter what you do or think.

When the people of my land decide we want her to go, then she will go.

You just don't get it.

And you are just playing right into their hands again.

Oh no, we're gonna have to dig up Cromwell and reform the New Model Army!

Another stupid post from you Chiquita.

There is no place in the world today for "kings and queens" (except in a gay bar).

There is a place for Kings and Queens in those countries that choose to have them. You are rising above your station and you lack the knowledge to know what is right for anyone else. You just look after you, you, you.

You keep voting yourselves "perks" which make you dependent on a government that is going to turn and bite you on the ass when the chips are down.

We have a different perspective than you on the welfare state and a national health service. We all pay in and we all get something back.

Unless you rid yourselves of them, they will enslave your grandchildren once again.

Unless you hadn't already noticed, most of us are already slaves to the rat race and have been since the dawn of capitalism. We have simply replaced one controlling system with another.

How do you propose that this is going to happen?

How can our children be enslaved, when our society is arguably the freeist and fairist in the world?

And you are a fool if you can't see that.

I think you have shown yourself to be the fool Chiquita. Completely disjointed from the world and living in cuckoo land.

OK there is another thing you can't do. You can't see what that monarchy thing is all about... LMOA. Such fools.

I think we are well aware of what the monarchy is about. That is why we had a civil war and curtailed the powers of the monarch. In this present day, as I keep reminding you, the Queen has no political, military or economic power with which to threaten us and I very much doubt she would want to.

Originally Posted by Chiquita

Try to imagine how little I care what some self-righteous hag on the other side of the world thinks about me or my country. All you want is someone to stomp and their wealth.

Its pretty clear that you couldn't care less.

to be perfectly honest I couldn't care less about the US if its foreign policy didn't have the potential to have such dire consequences on the rest of the world, and if you didn't have a military presence in more than half the nations on this globe.

whats good for America is not necessarily good for the rest of the world, and as long as the attitude 'my country right or wrong' disregards the rights of other people, you are going to get criticism from people all over this globe.

Originally Posted by asainspace

But, the Queen has no power Chiquita as is pointed out to you again and again. The elected members of the houses of parliment are where the decisions are made, and yes, I can vote to change them if I please.

Also, the Queen fulfills the role of head of the Commonwealth. No country within the commonwealth is forced to stay, it is a organisation of collective interests, which helps many people around the world to unite and celebrate the diversity of it's members.

Also, you seem to miss the point that the Monarchy (whether you like it or not) is a fundamental part of the history of the British Isles and is only there now for ceremonial purposes and as a monument to our national pride and traditions. To delude yourself that they are plotting to take back power is paranoid and only another example of your complete inability to understand the outside world.



At this present time, there is no national call for the monarchy to be disbanded and until then you have to accept that she is there with our blessing.

At least our Queen is able to master the English language Chiquita. You jealous or something? She is an old lady, fulfilling the role she was raised groomed to fill. How can you be so angry against her?

And for the record, I'm an anti-monarchist, but I understand and treasure the crown of England, cause it is inherently entwined with the history of my country.



When the people of my land decide we want her to go, then she will go.

You just don't get it.



Oh no, we're gonna have to dig up Cromwell and reform the New Model Army!

Another stupid post from you Chiquita.



There is a place for Kings and Queens in those countries that choose to have them. You are rising above your station and you lack the knowledge to know what is right for anyone else. You just look after you, you, you.



We have a different perspective than you on the welfare state and a national health service. We all pay in and we all get something back.



Unless you hadn't already noticed, most of us are already slaves to the rat race and have been since the dawn of capitalism. We have simply replaced one controlling system with another.

How do you propose that this is going to happen?

How can our children be enslaved, when our society is arguably the freeist and fairist in the world?



I think you have shown yourself to be the fool Chiquita. Completely disjointed from the world and living in cuckoo land.



I think we are well aware of what the monarchy is about. That is why we had a civil war and curtailed the powers of the monarch. In this present day, as I keep reminding you, the Queen has no political, military or economic power with which to threaten us and I very much doubt she would want to.

You live with your head in the sand like an osterich. If she had no power, or NO HOPE OF POWER FOR HER HEIRS, she would not hang on to a dead end job. You sit here criticizing us when in fact you need to wake up and smell the coffee.