Thread: How much profit do Health Insurance Companies make on the policies they sell?

Originally Posted by chassisman

The only problem I have with health insurance is my inability to purchase it across state lines. Private companies are entitled to whatever profit the market will bear, doing away with the state line restriction will make the market more competitive, but as far as I know Obama's wonderful ACA doesn't make the change, does it?

Chassiman,

Good proposal. So who regulates the Health Insurer is policies move across state lines?

Originally Posted by CowboyTed

CBM, you believe that customers pick products solely on price... That it is naive...
Here is my question : Why do normal Airline carriers get any customers when compared to low cost airlines?

Oh, not at all. I'm well aware that people pick products based on other factors. I'll one-up you. Lots of blind studies show that generic supermarket brands are equal to brand name products, but people still buy brand name. I do it, too. I could probably save half my money on some products.

But it's a whole different ball of wax when the person is complaining that "this is completely unaffordable!!" and demanding the government intervene and we have articles on how cost is key and so on. Isn't it?

Originally Posted by C-B-M

Oh, not at all. I'm well aware that people pick products based on other factors. I'll one-up you. Lots of blind studies show that generic supermarket brands are equal to brand name products, but people still buy brand name. I do it, too. I could probably save half my money on some products.

But it's a whole different ball of wax when the person is complaining that "this is completely unaffordable!!" and demanding the government intervene and we have articles on how cost is key and so on. Isn't it?

But you can see our insurance is not at an unaffordable area and I am will to pay the extra €20 a month for that peace of mind... Same as you pick branded products for same or different reasons...

The Government has intervened in our system and has gone to the supreme court in Ireland and got shot down.. If they went to European Court they would have shot them down too..

Ireland is kicking around to 9% of GDP which is expensive but far below the 17% ish figure the US is at... Ireland has universal health insurance the private insurance we buy is for more choice hospitals and doctors... The public system has choice as well but for peace of mind I want as much choice as possible...
A good example would be young people playing sport, if you did your AC (cruciate ligament). Your under no major life threat and it can be done by a local doctor in local hospital and you will be back on the field in a year(a friend of mind got it done this way). Or my cousin (who actually was public only, ie no private) asked to goto Dr Moran in Dublin(this guy is the best, does pro soccer players (brother played for Man Utd)). Well the cousin was back playing in 7 months and played in the final at the end of the year(lost again). As a private I could ask for Dr. Moran straight out before any public patients and I would get my own private room in the hospital while my cousin had to recover in a ward. Small difference but I am will to pay for it.

While Cost is Key it is not the only thing and far from it... Nearly every young person I know who is into sport at a local level be it Gaelic Football, Hurling, Rugby or Soccer has private insurance... rugby is a laugh we had a hospital vist once every two games on average from just our team for a season..

The other thing is we have shown that the more the public vs private money used in healthcare the cheaper the system is as a whole without a compromise on quality (and in many cases increase in quality).

Originally Posted by CowboyTed

But you can see our insurance is not at an unaffordable area

Oh, then we don't need the government to get involved, right? That is, people can buy their own insurance from private companies at market rates just like they do with airplane tickets and Oreos. Right?

Originally Posted by C-B-M

Oh, then we don't need the government to get involved, right? That is, people can buy their own insurance from private companies at market rates just like they do with airplane tickets and Oreos. Right?

But the reason that works in Ireland is because we have a public universal health system. You can rely on that on on personal choice buy the premium product on top from private insurers. About 50% of the people get private healthcare, but with free choice a friend of mine in the gym pays for gym membership over having private Health Insurance.

Some companies or unions do negociate a rate but that is no more that 10% and I think it has to get approval. Good example is Nurses and Teachers have a lower rate because there was a deal for a large number and it is taken straight from there paycheck (as an option).

Healthcare Delivery is a separate issue in which both Private and Public Hospitals coexist. Both groups have acces to both Private and Public under different conditions... I can access all imediately while a Public only person will go private if no public available (it is paid by his universal coverage). There is also the option for both to go aboard to UK (mainly) if there is a backlog. Some people go to places like South Africa if the cost is cheaper (including Travel and accomadation). Everyone has the right to refuse to travel and is allowed to bring someone with them if they go.

So in our case it is an option, Health Insurance is heavilly regulated... Insurers have to offer better than the public option. Costs are tight for the private insurers and there is no huge bonuses handed out and no huge profits but two of the three insurers do make a profit. VHI made a slight loss last year after many years profit.

Originally Posted by chassisman

The only problem I have with health insurance is my inability to purchase it across state lines. Private companies are entitled to whatever profit the market will bear, doing away with the state line restriction will make the market more competitive, but as far as I know Obama's wonderful ACA doesn't make the change, does it?

No, it does not.

But all is not lost.

I haven't kept up with it so do not at this time know the disposition of it, but as recently as the last Congress (possibly before the mid-terms last year), there was a significant effort in DC to craft legislation creating (for lack of a better term) a "federal" licensing structure for insurers.

Currently, as you might guess or already know, an insurer and each of their sales agents and brokers, have to be licensed, by line of insurance, and by each state in which they want to do business: That means if a large insurer like Allstate or Farmers or something wants to sell in Arizona, New Mexico, California, and Texas, they have to get a license for each of those states and each of those four licenses have to stipulate which lines they can sell (P&C, Life, Health, etc.).

With a national licensing structure, you could conceivably go online in Maine and buy the best deal you found in Louisianna.

Needless to say, I do agree with your urgency over abolishing the state-line exclusions. I also understand (anecdotally, though) that Obama also favors a national licensing deal because he doesn't want his health care initiative to have to jump through 50 hoops (like it is doing now).

Originally Posted by Good1

No, it does not.

But all is not lost.

I haven't kept up with it so do not at this time know the disposition of it, but as recently as the last Congress (possibly before the mid-terms last year), there was a significant effort in DC to craft legislation creating (for lack of a better term) a "federal" licensing structure for insurers.

Currently, as you might guess or already know, an insurer and each of their sales agents and brokers, have to be licensed, by line of insurance, and by each state in which they want to do business: That means if a large insurer like Allstate or Farmers or something wants to sell in Arizona, New Mexico, California, and Texas, they have to get a license for each of those states and each of those four licenses have to stipulate which lines they can sell (P&C, Life, Health, etc.).

With a national licensing structure, you could conceivably go online in Maine and buy the best deal you found in Louisianna.

Needless to say, I do agree with your urgency over abolishing the state-line exclusions. I also understand (anecdotally, though) that Obama also favors a national licensing deal because he doesn't want his health care initiative to have to jump through 50 hoops (like it is doing now).

Ezra Klein - Selling insurance across state lines: A terrible, no good, very bad health-care idea

By the way isn't commerce across state lines need to be federally regulated... If states want to opt out they can...


Work through this List item by item... http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/re...ndates2008.pdf

Give it to Surgeon general for review and comment.. With the possibility of heavilly recommending certain ways to vote....

Simple solution bring a state representive into a room... They can vote by law or with good reason change it by there law...

Eventually you get a single mandated solution... All states can voluntarily sign up to it when finished...

Federal law will state the insurance is actually bought in the state where the customer resides... Here is your market... Close enough might missed a few things but this is how the Euro was done in Europe...

Annually later, the signed up members come back and can change the mandates to suit... New members have to conform with the overall group... Can't change the club you want to join...