we fight for our country.because Vietnam united Russia want to control China:we attacked Vietnam to break their(VN-Russia) union.we are different from Japanese,we didn't make masscre in Vietnam.if we didn't do this,Vietnam would united Russia threat China--one is in the North,one is in the South.do you know,when China attack Vietnam,Russia arrey much troops in the China-Russia border in 1979?

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From your perspective it was justified. While I am not aware of any massacres and accept your assurance none occured, it is a funny thing about war. The side doing the attacking always thinks it is justified, and the side being attacked usually disagrees. That is clearly how those Vietnamese who do not wish to speak with you about this war feel, just as you feel the same about the Japanese. I am not trying to say one is the same as the other, just that the people involved are not that different in how they feel about the other side.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

you live in this world for yourself but not for anyone.Chinese fight with Vietnamese just for themselves,but not for american.
for stay alive,you should compete with others,because you don't want to lose your job.if you lose your job,you can't feed your family,you can't own house,car...and anything.
the same to a country.Vietnamese united russian threat China.in that period,for stay alive,for develop our country.what we can do is just fight with Vietnamese.if we didn't do it,Chinese would have not peaceful life,we fight for ourselves.you don't understand this war
in China,many people like america,but i can tell you,no one like Russian,we call Russian "wolf",they are bloody.
well ,needn't argue this war.because you have poor knowledge about China.you don't realize China.sorry

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To begin with I think I understand a lot about the Chinese government, however I will concede I am not as knowledgable when it comes to the average Chinese citizen. Next there is no reason to get upset Winter, I was not criticizing China for Vietnam, I was pointing out the Vietnamese more than likely view the cause of the awar differently than you do and accordingly that might be why vietnamese do not wish to talk about it with someone from China. The only comparison I was making to WWII was that this is exactly how you feel about Japan, and clearly the Japanese person on the thread saw events a little differently. Finally I never claimed anything about America in teh war between China and Vietnam, that was not the point of the discussion.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Many people in china like America? That's a joke isn't it?

Everytime I visit chinadaily.cn and look at the comments on articles I see nothing but a bunch of anti-american warmongers.

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"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly." - Thomas Paine

What the? Being Vietnamese myself, it doesn't anger me or to my knowledge any Vietnamese to talk about this war? Why would it, when most international articles regarded Vietnam as the victor?

Oh and here is an article originally from the New York Times written in March 2005 about how Chinese don't like to talk about the war, and even the government is trying tactics to erase it from memory due to being ashamed about it.

http://www.howardwfrench.com/archive...ow_to_bury_it/

Some notable quotes from the article.

-So by international monitors from the quote above, Vietnam seems to have had less casualities in that war even though Chinese troops outnumbered them about 3 to 1.

-Not to mention that China was obviously trying to get Vietnam out of Cambodia with that war, since they had signed a defense agreement.

-On the Vietnamese side the war was fought mostly by civilian regulars and not professional troops as most were fighting the war in Cambodia, and both China and Cambodia had teamed up against Vietnam. So Vietnam was fighting a 2 front war with Civilians on the Northern borders fighting professional Chinese troops with tanks.

-Deng Xiaoping realized how badly China did against Vietnam and called for the modernization of the PLA, so if it wasn't for the Sino-Vietnam war then the PLA wouldn't be as advanced as it is now.

Another neutral article about this war for anyone interested that clearly states who won.

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazi...pingxiang.html

As for the comment that China started the war because Vietnam was killing Chinese, can they please show me a reliable source that Vietnam was killing Chinese? At most Vietnam just deported them back to China after the war.

In fact if anyone was killing Chinese, it was their ally, the Khmer Rouge, and the killing only ended because Vietnam liberated that country from them. In fact, Chinese-Cambodians appealed to the Chinese government to intervene on their behalf but were ignored by China and after the liberation, they expressed dissappointment in the Chinese government.

When has the PRC ever given concern to overseas Chinese? Look at the Indonesia riots, did the Chinese government do anything to stop that? Oh I forgot, China wants to make good relations with the Indonesian government, so I guess it's ok if they do it.

It seems to me Vietnam does a better job of protecting Chinese in other countries like Cambodia then the Chinese government themselves who don't really give a crap as long as the government who is doing it is their ally like Cambodia or Indonesia.

As for the argument that China started the war because Vietnam was teaming up with Russia to attack China. I give it this: HA HA HA HA HA

China invaded Vietnam because they kicked the Khmer Rouge from power. Most sources cite this as the reason, and that is a no brainer since China and Cambodia had signed a defense treaty.

en.you can say anything you like to say.

but i can tell you,North Vietnamese hate Chinese very much,because PLA killed very very much Vietnamese.85 thousand vietnamese dead is a conservative number.i think you don't know,when PLA took Vietnamese position,no Vietnamese can stay alive.what you see in the media is just for propagandize.westerner have never been to the real China-Vietnam war battlefield.what they say is just image.if you look at the Vietnamese dead body full of the road,if you know many North Vietnam area being noman-area.then you know who won the war.

yes,China government don't mention this war,because Chinese don't want to make a new enemy,and this war came to the end for 27 years.so Chinese government try to make the youngs don't know this war.Government win.many young Chinese don't know this war.

for Vietnamese,especially North Vietnamese,they hate Chinese very much.they complain Chinese make them so poor.

yes,we won the war,we have ten peaceful years to reform and develop our enononic,the war came to the end in 10,1989.in that year,China more powerful than Vietnam.

but till today,Vietnam is still a very poor country!!Vietnamese complain Chinese make them poor!because in the war,Vietnamese is loser,buddy!!

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and buddy,this article which you link mentioned a war was not break in 1979,this war break in in 4/28/1984,this is the second China---Vietname war since 1979.let me tell you detail:
the firts China-Vietnam war :2/17/1979,China attacked Vietnam,that war was break in border,China troops over the border and beat Vietnam troops.maybe Vietnamese tell you they won that war,but please don't forget what Vietnamese get from this war.since that war,they are being more poor,more weak.but since that war came to the end serveral month,Deng XiaoPing started reform China economic system and China being rich,poweful.because after that war,Vietnamese can't threat China in military!
1979,Vietnam,Lang Shan,China gunners carpet shelling Lang Shan city

China Army Tanks in battlefield.i confess we lose about 200 tanks in battlefield.

another picture about gunner in Lang Shan,Vietnam.General Xu SiYou command his gunners:carpet shelling Lang Shan city,don't make any Vietnamese stay alive,destroy any house of this city.



1979,China Army Tanks over a Vietnam villiage

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what's the condition of victory?
1,Vietnam dead soldiers more than China
2,China got Fa kashan mountaion,Zhe Yingshan mountain,Lao Shan mountain.before the war,both Chinese and Vietnamese said they own the mountains
3,after the war,China being powerful,but Vietnam being more poor

well,man,it's quite meansure we won the war!!

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85,000. LOL Please, I know you made that up considering even the Chinese government themselves declared that they had killed 60,000. So I know you just made up that number yourselves.

However NON-Chinese and Non-Vietnamese sources declare that 20,000 Chinese died and Vietnam had LESS deaths.

I don't believe this. Chinese always mention the Sino-Indian War of 1962? Why? Because they won, so it isn't shameful of them to mention it, while they lost Sino-Vietnam War which is why they are trying to hide it.

So you're telling me, China doesn't want to make a new enemy with Vietnam by hiding this war, yet they don't hide the Sino-Indian War? I think India is a country that China would rather be friends with than Vietnam. So that argument doesn't have much weight.

Oh yeah and China is rich, yet for some reason there are 150 million Chinese living under the poverty line which is like 2 times more than the entire Vietnamese population. lol yeah please show me how the Sino-Vietnam war made Vietnam poor? Vietnam was already poor after the Vietnam War. Vietnam's poverty rate is 19.5% according to the CIA world factbook which is close to the 17% that the United Kingdom has.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/vm.html
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/uk.html

With 150 million poor Chinese out there you shouldn't be talking about how rich your country is.

This 1984 war doesn't exist. It is not mention at all in Western sources. If anything it was just a series of border clashes but never big enough to be a war.

You would think this war as big as you make it out to be, would at least be recorded in the Western media or something.

Please tell me what the West would gain by making propaganda in favour of Vietnam for this war? I trust them becuase they never participated in the war and thus are neutral and have higher scholarly standards than Asian countries. Also if anything, didn't the US back China diplomatically in that war anyway? So if anything they would be on China's side in that matter.

Why would I trust your Chinese sources, when China participated in the war and those sources are clearly bias, espicially when China doesn't have freedom of the media. Last I heard China was a dictator state.

Yes Vietnam is also a dictator state and has no freedom of the speech which is why I never use Vietnamese sources and I use Western neutral sources.

Lastly, you love to talk about how many Vietnamese the Chinese killed in that war, in hopes of getting me angry, but I'm not, since I know less Vietnamese died in that war according to the unbias, high schloarly sources I posted above.

I have tons of Sino-Vietnam pictures showing Chinese getting owned, but I'm not gonna post them and instead of talking about how much Chinese troops that Vietnam has killed, I would like to point out how many Chinese people that Vietnam has SAVED. Look at how the Chinese population were being slaughted in Cambodia by the Chinese ally, the Khmer Rouge. Who saved them? It was Vietnamese troops who did.

So I find more pride out of Vietnamese saving their enemy's civilians in another country, who the PRC didn't give 2 craps about and backed their killers, then I do about how many Chinese troops, Vietnamese had killed defending Vietnam.