Winter6126,

Guys like Macnamara are a recurring figure in US politics. He's nearing the end of his life, and simply feels the weight of those 54,000 (+), mostly lower class teenagers who died in Vietnam for no good reason.

LBJ created the big debacle (which hew inherited), but it took Nixon to really make Nam what we remember today.

Recall his 'Sectret Plan' to end the war- which was just an election year stunt?

I know he was worked in Ford.but i don't know other guys name except Henry Ford in your post.
in his book,he mentioned when he worked in Ford company,some one reasearch a new car.Macnamara know they would failed.at last,they really failed.

__________________
[url]http://hi.baidu.com/winter6126blog[/url]

I know Macnamara is old now.54 thousand american dead in Vietnam is not only his fault.most of them were dead after 1968,in 1968,Macnamara had resigned.

Johnson better than Nixon.I think

__________________
[url]http://hi.baidu.com/winter6126blog[/url]

Bill Clinton said Kennedy scared by USSR leader in his book...it's not me

__________________
[url]http://hi.baidu.com/winter6126blog[/url]

Yae well Bill Clinton said a couple of things that turned out not to be true. You may have faith in your politicians, but I would like to suggest you do not place the same fatih in ours.

__________________
[IMG]http://www.gersbachia.com/gort%5Fanim%5B1%5D.gif[/IMG]
The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

but...Clinton make american be more rich since 1992 he won the election.George W Bush make american feel safe,but he doesn't make american as rich as when Clinton was president.don't you think so?

__________________
[url]http://hi.baidu.com/winter6126blog[/url]

Winter,

But was it not Nixon who expanded the war?

And was it not MacNamara who encouraged the lies (eg, Domino Theory, over-estimated body counts) that kept it going?

FYI, when I worked for the Navy Dept, guy working next desk over had earned a purple heart, and had his best friend killed, in S. Vietnam in 1958, under Eisenhower.

So, LBJ ain't clean, but not much dirtier than the rest.

Well to begin with I don't think Bush makes a whole lot of us feel all that much safer. As far as whether I was richer under Clinton or Bush, frankly I see no real differences. I can do just as much today, if not more, as I could under Clintons Presidency. Interest rates did fall, but they continued to fall under Bush at first as well. The stock market really grew under Clinton, but that it seems turned out to be more smoke and mirrors than real growth. Under Bush at least the stock market more accurately reflects reality.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a Bush fan. In fact I will be very happy when 2008 rolls around and we won't have him to kick around anyome, sorry winter you might not understand that reference but it refers to something Nixon once said. However I am not one of these people that looks back and say's "oh if we could just go back to the good old days". Frankly life during the Clinton admin wasn't really all that much different. We still had terrorism, more domestic than foreign at least in the US. We still had political scandals. We still had the people not in power, this time it was the Repubs, hating those that were in power, Clinton and the Dems in the Administration. We had a war going on, although not as large as this one and not started over questionable intelligence. Nope for Americans there really hasn't been all that much difference in spite of all the complaining you hear. Now for foreigners in the US there has been a marked difference between the two admins.

__________________
[IMG]http://www.gersbachia.com/gort%5Fanim%5B1%5D.gif[/IMG]
The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Actually in this area I agree with Joao with one minor difference. It was in fact Truman that first got us into Vietnam in support of the French. now at that time the support was mainly financial, however we did have a few military advisors in the country. In 1954 Eisenhower increased our role in Vietnam as a reaction to the French pull out after Dien Bien Phu. Kenedy at first ratcheted up the force however there has been speculation that he wanted to find a way out had he not been assasinated. Whether that is true or not I don't know. Johnson and Nixon, as Joao pointed out, were the ones to really increase US presence there.

Johnson really increased the number of troops and in fact I would put most of the blame for Vietnam on him and MacNamara for that. They actually believed the dominoe theory at the time. They frequently over ruled the military in strategic and tactical considerations. They lied, along with teh military, to the American public about how the war was going. In fact it was those lies that directly led to Johnsons decision not to run for re-election in 1968. After TET it was obvious that we had been lied to and he basically decided to leave public office.

While Nixon did not start the war, at first he didn't do much to stop it either. Joao has refered to his secret plan to end the war. He is right that it was only a gimmick. What Nixon did however was use the war to justify cracking down on protests at home. Again he did not intiate the COINTEL program but he certainly exapnded its authority. Then he came out with this ridiculous concept of bombing the NVA into a peace plan and just in case that wasn't enough decided to invade Cambodia while he was at it, which in my view led directly to the rise of the Khmer Rouge. Finally he got his "peace with honor", although looking at the pictures in 1975 at the embassy where the honor part came in I have no idea. We basically left the S. Vietnamese out to hang, and they eventually did. Now they weren't frankly worth our support in the first place, or at least their government wasn't, but that was a moot point by then.

Anyway as you read McNamara's book keep in mind Vietnam is seen as one of our greatest failures by most Americans. McNamara is getting close to meeting his maker and is simply trying to atone for his mistakes. Below is a link to a wickpedia site that goves some background on McNamara. Given Wickpedia is what it is I would also take this with a grain of salt, but here it is anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_McNamara

__________________
[IMG]http://www.gersbachia.com/gort%5Fanim%5B1%5D.gif[/IMG]
The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Nixon break his promise,he said he would make US soldiers as quickly as possible,but at last he tried to block Ho Chi Ming trail to stop from North Vietnamese sending NVA soldiers into South Vietnam.so he expanded the battlefield to Laos,Cambodia .he is a dishonest man.

Macnamara tried to withdraw US Army from S vietnam and talk peace with Vietcong and North Vietnam since 1965(1966??),he strongly object General Westmorland's request,General Westmoland wish President Johnson sent more and more american soldiers to South Vietnam to win the war.Macnamara consider there's no useful,because South Vietnam government was a corrupt government.South Vietnamese didn't support their leaders in politics,so US Army and South Vietnam Army can't beat Vietcong&NVA.
General Westmorland was charged cheat president Johnson and US government in 1980s by CBS(columbia broadcasting system),CBS said Westmorland brag his military successes to cheat Johnson in a TV program.at last Westmorland sue CBS slander him in court.
but Macnamara didn't charged by anyone. he didn't charged told lies to american.
why did they went to South Vietnam in 1958?I remember in early 1960s,Kennedy began sent some(not too many) US soldiers to S. Vietnam to train S.Vietnamese.Eisenhower believe USSR and China export violence revolution to Vietnam,communist wanted to conquer the world.so he told Kennedy the West world shouldn't lose S. Vietnam,if american lose it,then would happen domino effect,all poor country would under communist's control.Kennedy agree with him.
but when Eisenhower was president,when did he sent american to Vietnam?i believe maybe he sent a few soldiers to help French,but not too many american

__________________
[url]http://hi.baidu.com/winter6126blog[/url]