Thread: After US bankruptcy, then what?

Originally Posted by MattInFla

If the US goes bankrupt, I doubt you'll find many other countries in great shape, either. They'll probably be eating what they produce.

Leaving the folks in the dense urban centers in a spot of trouble, with no way to grow enough food locally to sustain their populations.

Are you aware that US edibles are BANNED or severely RESTRICTED from European countries as unsafe? In countries where they are on a market, like Ukraine or Russia (I'm not sure Russia readmited US chickens...) people are aware of how unsafe US products are and avoid them.

Besides, in most European countries town's people have plots of land where they can grow whatever they want (unlike the US where gardening was banned recently).

Originally Posted by Commodore

The rest of the world will suffer as well, only much worst.

The urban populations of Europe have nowhere to run, with the exception of Russia,

Africa has teetered on the brink since the end of WW2, there will be nothing holding them up.

The Middle East will not be able to resist the urge to take another swing at Israel,

and without backup or American leverage,

Why?

Why would "urban populations of Europe" want to run anywhere at all?

US was the main drive for African poverty and instability; so, with US gone they will have a chance at picking up their lives.

The ME will avoid the Pentagon map border redrawing with the ensurring conflicts.


As for Israel, it looks like the US is ready to sell it down the river in a future conflict with Turkey and Iran (if they can provoke it)...

In addition, there will be no one to conduct "coloured revolutions" within the target countries; and no one to continue financing the murdering organisation that already put Hitler to shame -- NATO.

All in all, the world will win when the US will piss off off the world's stage.

Originally Posted by Alma

Are you aware that US edibles are BANNED or severely RESTRICTED from European countries as unsafe? In countries where they are on a market, like Ukraine or Russia (I'm not sure Russia readmited US chickens...) people are aware of how unsafe US products are and avoid them.

Besides, in most European countries town's people have plots of land where they can grow whatever they want (unlike the US where gardening was banned recently).

www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ353/pdf/PLAW-111publ353.pdf


answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110816062239AAR9dFM

The FDA Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA) did become law. It was signed by President Obama on Jan. 4, 2011 and became Public Law 111–353 (124 STAT. 3885).

The FSMA does not cover people raising food for themselves or that they plan to share with friends or neighbors. The law also specifically exempts "establishments that sell food directly to consumers, such as roadside stands, farmers markets or participants in a community supported agriculture program" from the requirements of the Act.

factoidz.com/topic/is-the-Hr-875-still-being-discussed/
There is confusion among the public now about all the different so-called food safety bills. I am not exactly sure what happened to HR 875, as far as I know it is still out there. It appears there are now four different food safety bills. I was told that HR 875 is now in the Senate under S 510. But another article I read said that S 510 is the Senate version of HR 2749.

I have not found any recent action on HR 875, but there is plenty going on with S 510 and the other bills.

The four bills now appear to be
HR2749
HR1332
S. 510
HR 875


www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-510

This bill was superseded by H.R. 2751. On Sunday, December 19, the text of S. 510 replaced the original text of H.R. 2751, and the bill passed by voice vote. H.R. 2751, originally the Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, passed the House in June 2009 and was a "vehicle" for the passage of S. 510 in a House-originating bill because S. 510 was a revenue-raising bill. All revenue-raising bills must originate in the House.

S 510
This bill never became law. This bill was proposed in a previous session of Congress. Sessions of Congress last two years, and at the end of each session all proposed bills and resolutions that haven't passed are cleared from the books. Members often reintroduce bills that did not come up for debate under a new number in the next session.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/09/hr-875-myth-sows-terror-a_n_185230.html
Small Business? Big Ideas...: HR 875: The Food Safety Modernization Act
MYTH: H.R. 875 “makes it illegal to grow your own garden” and would result in the “criminalization of the backyard gardner.”
FACT: There is no language in the bill that would regulate, penalize, or shut down backyard gardens. This bill is focused on ensuring the safety of foods sold in supermarkets.

Originally Posted by Alma

Why?

Why would "urban populations of Europe" want to run anywhere at all?

In case you haven't noticed, Europe is already teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, if the US goes under, Europe already has or will follow shortly.

And while you can grow food in the city, it requires stability that won't be there without the government there to print the checks. Hell, the "youth" of London and Paris are already tearing the place apart despite the checks.

Russia is stable now because of oil revenue, but what happens when that dries up?
Russia likes its strongmen, and there won't be enough of Europe left to fight over this time. You might get your old Soviet empire back for a while. Don't screw it up this time.

Originally Posted by Alma

US was the main drive for African poverty and instability; so, with US gone they will have a chance at picking up their lives.

Are we talking about the same Africa. The only thing that pulled sub-Saharan Africa out of the tribal mud huts is the European colonial influence, and the only thing keeping them from reverting back to that completely is the trickle of US grown sacks of food falling out the back of a helicopter.

Originally Posted by Alma

The ME will avoid the Pentagon map border redrawing with the ensurring conflicts.

Thats cute. Is that for a video game your working on?

Originally Posted by Alma

As for Israel, it looks like the US is ready to sell it down the river in a future conflict with Turkey and Iran (if they can provoke it)...

Obama might want to sell Israel down the river, but he won't be around long enough to do it. Turkey, without NATO support, will lose.

Originally Posted by Alma

In addition, there will be no one to conduct "coloured revolutions" within the target countries; and no one to continue financing the murdering organisation that already put Hitler to shame -- NATO.

Do they really still play that Cold War propaganda on Russian TV?

Originally Posted by Alma

All in all, the world will win when the US will piss off off the world's stage.

If you use Charlie Sheens definition of winning.

How's that for a torpedo of truth?

Originally Posted by michael h

I'd like to see Maine become a part of Canada, the UK, or an independent nation.

You are obviously not aware of how rotten and restricted the UK society is then.

Originally Posted by Commodore

1. In case you haven't noticed, Europe is already teetering on the brink of bankruptcy,

2. And while you can grow food in the city, it requires stability that won't be there without the government there to print the checks.

3. Hell, the "youth" of London and Paris are already tearing the place apart despite the checks.

4. Russia is stable now because of oil revenue, but what happens when that dries up?

5. Russia likes its strongmen, and there won't be enough of Europe left to fight over this time. You might get your old Soviet empire back for a while. Don't screw it up this time.

6. Are we talking about the same Africa. The only thing that pulled sub-Saharan Africa out of the tribal mud huts is the European colonial influence, and the only thing keeping them from reverting back to that completely is the trickle of US grown sacks of food falling out the back of a helicopter.

7. Thats cute. Is that for a video game your working on?

8. Obama might want to sell Israel down the river, but he won't be around long enough to do it.

9. Turkey, without NATO support, will lose.

10. Do they really still play that Cold War propaganda on Russian TV?

11. If you use Charlie Sheens definition of winning.

How's that for a torpedo of truth?

1. EUROPE? No, I haven't noticed. Some European countries, yes, but not Europe.

2. What will happen to the governments? And what will happen to the countryside? Are you aware that many farmers are getting paid for NOT growing anything? So, all they will have to do is start growing staff. Anyway, you missed the point: US products are either banned or severely restricted in Europe; it means European nations feed themselves without the US "help".

3. What "checks"? And what does that have to do with the economics?

4. Russia is not stable, and it has nothing to do with oil.

5. What will happen to Europe, and whom Russia will have to fight with?

6. Yep! The reason Africa is in condition it is now is because the US/European banks make sure African countries can never shake off their debt; and to keep them in such a state US regularly organises little coups, and promote corporate robbery of the continent. Libya broke the mould and look what "international community" did to it!

7. No. It's PENTAGON map.

8. Obama is a talking head for the elites that stand behind him. They will not go anywhere.

9. When there was the Cold War there were no "coloured revolutions", and NATO was sitting on its chain.

10. Never heard of Charlie Sheens.

Cr*p torpedo, sorry.

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

You are obviously not aware of how rotten and restricted the UK society is then.

I know Canadians, I like Canadians, and they would be the 1st choice or a new Maine Nation would.

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee

How will your state survive?

In NJ I think we'd survive pretty nicely.

The first month or two would be pretty rough but once all the skells from Newark, Camden, Trenton, Patterson, Jersey City, and the other more populace urban areas fled South and West I think we'd be okay.

A great deal of the country's pharmeceuticals are located in NJ so we'll continue to produce medicines. That's something everyone needs so we'll have trade goods there to see us through the early stages. We also do a lot of petrochemical refining and have two of the East Coast's dozen-or-so deep water ports so assuming we're still going to need oil/gas anywhere in the country at least some of it is going to come through NJ.

We also have a lot of agriculture in NJ. Actually a whole heck of a lot more than some of the Red ststes on your map.

NJ is ranked in the top 5 in the nation's production of at least a dozen or so fruits and vegetables and there's an awful lot of areable land that isn't currently productive. If more is needed we'll just deforest a few mountain tops, just like the early settlers in NJ did. Plenty of rivers and streams ensure that we'll have the water we need to produce crops. There's also a lot of wild game in NJ so hunting will be able to contribute to the initial sustinance effort. In the past week and a half I've had dozens of wild turkey and squirrels and a 7' female black bear in my backyard and I saw a pack of about 5 does in the woods across the street the other night.

We also have a pretty great fishery in NJ, both sweet and saltwater. (I'd bet I'm in walking distance of more trout streams than most other members of this board. I also live in close proximity to several lakes and two very big reservoirs.) Commercial fishing will probably fill a big hole in NJ's sustainment efforts.

Speaking of water, what the reservoirs can't provide the Northern Atlantic Coastal Plain aquifer system can. Drinking water won't be a problem, ever. Are all of the Red states sure they can say the same.

Timber? Between the decidious Oak forests in the north and the Pine Barrens in the south we've got as much wood as this little stste is going to need for a long time.

We've also got three nuclear reactors currently providing about 50% of the state's electrical generation. With a little common sense and some strict rationing we should be able to maintain our power grid.

I really can go on and on.

I think what it's going to come down to essentially is where you live in NJ. Folks down south and up north will be able to make a run of it and we'll be as successful as any other state in the Union. What you don't really consider about NJ is that it's actually a very Red state locally. Much like NYC has undue influence over NY's state and federal political representation because of population densities NJ is unduly effected by our urban areas. Once you move away from the cities NJ may as well be North Carolina. For every yuppie neighbor I have I've got another 5 who may as well be considered rednecks.

I expect that we'll see the same thing from a great many other traditionally Blue states. Once the federal government is gone and we're in a sink-or-swim situation things well revert much more back to a local level. Do you really think that NY and PA are going to be dominated by Democratic political patronage once the federal government disapears? Of course not. When there are no jobs in Manhattan folks are going to move upstate and learn to farm.

If the neconomy collapses and everything becomes different than everything is going to be different. It's not like Georgia is going to make it through just fine because Georgia elects Republican presidents and New Jersey is going to fail on the simple weight of having swung for Democrats over the last couple election cycles.