Thread: Finally! A immigration law that makes sense.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

Well Phoenix, you can find every arguement and rant

Your attempt to minimize and belittle my solid presentation of facts and relevancies in the matter is irrational.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

you made above referred to every immigrant migration to the US.

Wrong.

Only illegal migration is of concern.

That's what matters today, and rightly so.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

If you would like, please show me the job they are taking from you

Anecdotes are irrelevant and meaningless.

What’s meaningfully relevant is the number of Americans out of work and the numbers of illegals here.

The math is easy.

Millions of jobs have been stolen.

Indeed, for every illegal immigrant working in America, that's a stolen American job.

It's really a no-brainer.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

as I have continiously employed since I was 13.

Again, irrelevant anecdote.

The facts show that roughly 50 million Americans are currently un- and under- employed.

Including their dependent family members, that's over 120 million Americans suffering in the recession.

Each and every illegal immigrant with a job in America is contributing to the suffering of these 120 million Americans.

Those are the facts.

No singular anecdotal reference can rebut the facts.

And, may I add, that your arrogance in telling how good you are to still be working when tens of millions of your fellow Americans aren't, well, such bragging does not paint a pretty picture.

I'm guessing you really don't care all that much about the welfare of your fellow Americans – as long as you have a job, that’s the only American you care about.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

As recently as 2010 the US census bureau and ICE determined there were 10.8 million illegals in the US, 57% being from Mexico, down from 11.8 million estimated previously.

False.

Your biased veracity is most certainly questionable.

Regardless, everyone knows it's impossible to get even close to an accurate count of the illegals, as they don't respond to the census takers, and the government hates to admit to the high degree of inaccuracy in this count -- they actually think the great majority of illegals responded to the census! That's so laughable.

The census bureau numbers are simply way low .. assuming of course, you've accurately stated them.

A liberal administration has underestimated, likely on purpose, the true count of illegals in the U.S., because the lower the number they present, the less opposition to amnesty they think they'll receive.

In addition, presenting false low counts of the number of illegals also helps to hide how many grateful illegals will vote for the liberal Dems once they receive amnesty, thereby helping in their attempt to fool Republicans into voting for amnesty thus thereby unwittingly driving a nail in their own party's coffin.

It has always been a good rule of thumb to double the number of illegals the government presents to arrive at a good workable number for planning purposes.

20 milllion illegals in the U.S. -- that's a whole lot closer to the truth than either the liberal-presented 11 million or the conservative-presented 30 million.

Regardless, even if it were only 1 million illegals working in America, that would still be 1 million American jobs stolen too many.

Of the roughly 20 million illegals in America, my guess is that roughly two fifths of them are working -- 8 million American jobs stolen -- while the remainder are non-working dependents, all draining American resources for which the vast, vast majority of them pay nothing to support.

It's all so terribly wrong .. and this wrong must be corrected.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

I live in CA, I work with many Legal Mexicans and this is some of what they feel, many having family that are illegal. My neighborhood is predominantly hispanic and I get along with all of them.

So?

Meaningless and irrelevant .. except to show how your emotional ties with a specific singular foreign ethnicity prevent you from courageously supporting all of your fellow Americans.

You give the impression that your Hispanic illegal-supporting friends do your thinking for you .. and that your patriotism to your fellow Americans is codependently negotiable to garner acceptance in your Latino community.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

America is strong because we assimilate all who come here

Wrong again.

America is strong because we take care of our own via the rule of law.

We become weak when we codependently sacrifice our own, or when we allow politicos pandering in a powerplay, as the liberal Dems are attempting to do with their amnesty movement, to override the great silent majority who are opposed to illegal immigration and the stealing of American jobs.

Legal immigration is a good thing, as it respects the necessary quotas to allow materials management policies to support new people, and those who apply and are accepted are understandably grateful, and they thereby wax patriotic, and thus help to keep America strong, by respecting the rule of law in America.

Illegal immigrants, on the other hand, make America weak, because they disrespect American rule of law that has made us strong.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

and take the best of all, but it is a slow process.

To "take the best of all", as you say, requires that we are able to choose up front from legal immigration applications.

Illegals did not fill out an application, they just trespassed unlawfully.

Thus there was no picking and choosing, as you say, and it seems, therefore, that illegals are thus the worst of all -- all 20 million of them.

No wonder "it is a slow process"!

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

Illegal immigration is not the reason we have a recession

Irrelevant digression.

However ..

.. The prime cause first domino of the current recession began in the early 1980s, and included amnesty for 2.6 million illegals so that Reagan's corporate socialism of the eighties could provide cheap labor and a lowering of the wage scale across the board for corporate benefit.

Jobs were thereby stolen from always-legal Americans at that time.

And, of course, that created a rush on our borders .. resulting in more American jobs lost to illegals.

In-sourcing of wage-slave labor was the beginning of the trend toward corporations seeking wage-slave labor because Reagan taught them they could get away with it .. and thus NAFTA followed .. then in the first decade of the 21st century, off-shoring American jobs to wage-slave labor abroad ramped way up, taking sub-primers jobs predominantly, causing sub-prime home foreclosures en masse mid-decade, resulting in unscrupulous securities traders creating worthless sub-prime securities, passing the buck and making a ton off them, finally thereby sticking many unwitting financial institutions in America and abroad with the bill that caused the 2007 credit crunch .. that "suddenly" plunged us into The Great Recession.

Today, the reason that "the economy" has recovered, but jobs have not, is because of the current American corporate trend to hire wage-slave labor, either in-sourced, millions illegal, as well as out-sourced, all highly unethical in the midst of horrific economic times for so many scores of millions of their fellow American citizens.

Oh, you better believe that illegals have been a factor in creating the recession in America, from the get-go.

Those are the facts.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

and high unemployment,

Ha!

You live in fantasy land.

But, you have a lot of Hispanic friends, even if millions of your fellow Americans are without work and shelter and good food as a result of your cherished illegals stealing their jobs.

But hey -- you have your values.

Mine are different.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

lets see a thread that addresses that issue.

Many have been posted.

Go read them.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

Blaming it on the Mexicans might be popular

There you go again with your "Mexicans".

Illegal immigrants have come from all over the world.

This is not an ethnic issue.

It is not a race issue.

It is an issue of resource management in respect of American rule of law.

And our law is blind -- it does not differentiate with regard to race, color, creed or national origin.

It doesn't matter to me, it doesn't matter to nearly everyone opposed to illegal immigration, what race or ethnicity the illegals are.

Though ethnicity seems to matter to you, as you've presented here that you enjoy pandering to Mexicans, for whatever reason, but this matter of illegals is not about ethnicity.

It's about respecting fellow Americans and our sacred rule of law.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

but that doesn't make it right.

One of the more despicable behaviors on the part of pro-amnesty politicos is the race-baiting they perform by attempting to make this matter all about race, or color, or creed, or ethnicity, or national origin ..

.. So that they can divert attention from the horrific damage illegals have done to millions of Americans of all races, colors, and creeds ..

.. And so they can then digress in feigned pity for "the poor illegals -- they deserve citizenship!"

Yes, I can't think of no more despicable behavior on the part of these liberal race-baiters than to do the race-baiting that they do here.

Phoenix, your rants are illogical, your retorts obtuse, and your numbers are simply false. I can say I am againsed illegal immigration (I am), but I also have to understand the motivation to counter the problem. You are just bluster and BS. No way are we going to rid the nation of all or even a major portion of the illegals, with all the hoopala in the past 10 years, we have managed to lose just 1 million in the past 2 years. Prosecuting employers is a start but we have to realise that most will be here no matter what we do so we must prepare and plan for that eventuality. The Census Bureau is the most accurate method for counting our population, estimates of unreported illegals are included in the numbers. 57% of all are Mexican, 10 to 15% more are Hispanic. You can claim it's not racial, you can roll your eyes and swear to Rush your not. We know it is often racial and your attempt to scare people would be funny if it were not so sad.

Alabama House passes Arizona-style immigration law | al.com

Alabama joins the fray.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

Phoenix, your rants are illogical, your retorts obtuse, and your numbers are simply false.

Of course, here, you are projecting, obviously.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

I can say I am againsed illegal immigration (I am),

You are obviously not against illegal immigration.

Anyone who argues in favor of amnesty as you have is really not truly opposed to illegal immigration.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

but I also have to understand the motivation to counter the problem.

No you don't.

You simply enforce the law first.

And ask questions later.

There's no "understanding" that excuses the horrific thieving behavior of the illegals.

None at all.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

You are just bluster and BS.

And again, you initiate casting of dispersions, falsely, as usual.

Do you understand the word "projection"?

For as much as you succmb to it, you should.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

No way are we going to rid the nation of all or even a major portion of the illegals,

Cowards fear the size of the obstacle.

Braves fight, without considering odds, as to retreat, to cower in the face of the task, is to be defeated by it from the get-go.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

with all the hoopala in the past 10 years, we have managed to lose just 1 million in the past 2 years.

There's been no "hoopla".

The single unified act of enforcing the law uncategorically throughtout the land will cause them all to leave our country within a very short time.

Once liberal MCIs and conservative CGEs get out of the way, the will of the American people will be done.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

Prosecuting employers is a start

We've been prosecuting employers .. yet many still attempt to break the law, because our politicos have persuaded them they can get away with it.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

but we have to realise that most will be here no matter what we do so we must prepare and plan for that eventuality.

Pure BS!

When it comes to doing the right thing, we should never ever give up!

No matter what it takes, no matter how long it takes, we can never acquiesce to the thievery of our fellow citizens jobs!

For someone who says he opposes illegal immigration, you surrender to the criminals very easily and quickly.

That is truly sad.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

The Census Bureau is the most accurate method for counting our population,

Absolutely false.

When it comes to counting the illegals in "our population", the Census Bureau fails miserably.

I already pointed out to you why they fail: illegals don't respond to American census takers, and they don't respond because they fear they will be identified and reported.

You keep beating a dead horse here.

Simply do the right and accurate thing and double whatever number the Census Bureau has provided as an estimate.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

estimates of unreported illegals are included in the numbers. 57% of all are Mexican, 10 to 15% more are Hispanic.

There you go again, not only spouting off wrong numbers ..

.. but insisting, it appears, that you really want to make it mostly all about race!

Why do you liberal politicos do that???

Are you trying to excuse the trespass and job thievery, saying that Latinos, Mexicans, whatever, have a right to break our laws and that no other races do and no other race has a right to complain about it???

Your race-baiting is not only ethically egregious, it's absolutely nonsensical!

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

You can claim it's not racial, you can roll your eyes

First, you set up the obvious race-bait .. and then before we can complain about such race-baiting, you chastize us for being about to complain about your race-baiting! Talk about controlling behavior -- you take the cake!

No one who wants Americans of all races, colors, and creeds to get their stolen jobs back cares at all about the race, color or creed of the thieves!

We just want justice. We want our fellow Americans to get their jobs back so they can shed their horrific poverty. And we want the criminals to pay the price for their crimes.

That you continue to look at race and not at behavior reveals your liberal bias and contempt for the rule of law.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

and swear to Rush your not

And here you cement your liberal standing by assuming that I'm a Rush Limbaugh conservative simply because I want Americans to get their jobs back and the thieves to be brought to justice.

I'm not a conservative, and I don't listen to Rush.

I'm an American, a centrist, one of the great majority.

We oppose illegal immigration on the grounds that it breaks our laws and victimizes our people.

It is mass criminal behavior of the worst kind.

Respect for fellow Americans and the rule of law that has made our country great and safe for its citizens and legal immigrants is what motivates we centrists.

We don't need any gurus.

And we most certainly won't be silenced.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

We know it is often racial

You know nothing.

The only people falsely making it "racial" are the liberal Dems as manipulated by the MCIs (multi-cultural internationalists) that hold the power in their party.

This egregious act of race-baiting that the MCIs direct is an attempt to divert attention from the horrors inflicted on American by the illegals' job-stealing behaviors, so that a digression toward amnesty has great chances.

The MCIs don't care at all that they are race-baiting. They don't care that they suck the unwitting among their liberal ranks into race-baiting with them.

All they care about is their power-play.

Sorry, but we who oppose illegal immigration oppose it on the singular grounds that such law-breaking greatly victimizes our fellow Americans, our fellow Americans of all races, colors and creeds.

This is a national defense matter, nothing more.

That liberals continue to falsely accuse those opposed to illegal immigration as being racist is where the flame blame lies.

Originally Posted by clarkatticus

your attempt to scare people would be funny if it were not so sad.

And here you finish, once again, by projecting.

It is you with your race-baiting who is trying to scare Americans from fighting against the job-stealing scourage of illegal immigrants. And, indeed, your egregious behavior "would be funny if it were not so sad".

If all you can see is race in the matter, that's your problem, but it is yours, not mine, not those who agree with me on the need to fight and win the war of getting our fellow Americans their jobs back, not any American at all who values the rule of American law over liberal or conservative favoritism.

You would like to scare us into thinking that nothing can be done to defeat this terrible, terrible scourage that is dragging America down.

But you don't scare us.

We will keep on fighting this war against crminal behavior that harms so many millions of our fellow Americans.

We will not be bully-scared in any way into ever giving up.

Have they done any enforcement yet?
I hope this isn't just one of those laws that gets passed just to make people feel good but never enforced.

Great! Alabama is onboard!

(CNN) -- Alabama's governor has signed what he billed as tough illegal immigration legislation, requiring police to check the status of anyone they suspect may be in the country illegally when stopped for another reason.

The bill, due to take effect on September 1, was signed into law by Republican Gov. Robert Bentley on Thursday.

Its passage makes Alabama the latest in a series of states, including Georgia and Arizona, to enact controversial new laws aimed at tackling illegal immigration.

Civil rights groups and the Mexican government have been quick to condemn the move.

According to a fact sheet presented by Alabama House Republicans, the bill will require law enforcement officers "to attempt to determine the immigration status of a person who they suspect is an unauthorized alien of this country".

The legislation also makes it a criminal offense to provide transport or housing to an illegal immigrant. The state will have to check the citizenship of students, and any business that knowingly employs an illegal immigrant will be penalized.

A spokesman for Bentley told CNN that the governor had signed "a tough illegal immigration law."

Republican state Rep. John Merrill told CNN he had no hesitation in backing the legislation, saying it is "good for Alabama" because it will reduce illegal immigration to the state.

He rejected suggestions the law is discriminatory, and said he is confident it was drafted in such a way that it will survive legal challenges.

The legislation is intended to "provide equal opportunities for all people who want to come to Alabama legally," he added.

But critics say it has far-reaching consequences and will have a particular impact on young people because it requires the state to check the citizenship of all those seeking to enroll in schools.

Mary Bauer, legal director of the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights group, condemned what she called a very radical law, telling CNN it is "mean-spirited, racist, unconstitutional, and it is going to be costly."

She said not just illegal immigrants but also many American citizens could be impacted by the new rules.

"It makes it a crime for U.S. citizens to give people a ride if they turn out to be undocumented. It doesn't even have an exception for churches that are providing shelter or food or rides," she said.

Earlier the SPLC issued a statement saying the state stood to lose "millions more in lost tax revenue from Alabama businesses that will bear the brunt of boycotts of Alabama goods and services and lost sales to documented and undocumented immigrants who flee the state rather than deal with racial profiling and the state's anti-immigrant climate."

The Mexican government warned that the law could affect the human and civil rights of Mexicans living in or visiting the state.

Several immigrant and civil rights organizations filed a class-action lawsuit last week against a new Georgia law aimed at cracking down on illegal immigration.

That law allows police to ask about immigration status when questioning suspects in certain criminal investigations.

Meanwhile, Arizona's governor said last month she would appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court after portions of the state's new immigration law were blocked by federal courts.

The Arizona bill catapulted the issue onto the national stage last year, drawing a lawsuit from the U.S. Department of Justice, which argues that the law is unconstitutional.

Lawmakers in at least 20 states weighed similar proposals during the past year, according to the National Immigration Forum.

Alabama governor signs tough new immigration law - CNN.com

Originally Posted by CNN News Report

But critics say it has far-reaching consequences and will have a particular impact on young people because it requires the state to check the citizenship of all those seeking to enroll in schools.

Is it difficult to check citizenship? I wouldn't think so. So that's not going to be very expensive at all to do, as companies do that all the time when they hire people .. at least the ones with compunction do.

So, how will that have "particular impact on young people"?

It doesn't ..

.. Except maybe to keep illegals from illegally feeding off the American education trough and blocking American citizens from getting an education.

"Some critics" just need to remain appropriately silent.

Originally Posted by CNN News Report

Mary Bauer, legal director of the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights group, condemned what she called a very radical law, telling CNN it is "mean-spirited, racist, unconstitutional, and it is going to be costly."

Mary Bauer's race-baiting, illegal pandering, and Chicken-Littling is rightly to be ignored as the extremist rhetoric it truly is ..

.. And CNN needs to do a better job of screening the people it interviews and quotes so that wacos don't get undue air time.

Originally Posted by CNN News Report

She said not just illegal immigrants but also many American citizens could be impacted by the new rules. "It makes it a crime for U.S. citizens to give people a ride if they turn out to be undocumented. It doesn't even have an exception for churches that are providing shelter or food or rides," she said.

Knowingly aiding and abetting criminals has always been illegal for as long as I can remember.

That's the law, and it's a good one, always has been.

Illegals are criminals on multiple counts: 1) trespassing, 2) job theft, 3) and often identity forging/stealing. They are indeed criminals.

Thus to knowingly aid and abet them in any way is against the law.

The new and right anti-illegal immigration law simply specifies penalties for this type of aiding and abetting.

That's a good thing, as it makes the law and penalties very clear up front.

Again, it's appropriately important to never ever forget that illegals are criminals who have done great damage to American citizens in their criminal behavior.

Knowingly aiding and abetting them should indeed be punishable by law.

We Americans must stop scoffing at good American law. There is no excuse for such scofflaws.

Originally Posted by CNN News Report

Earlier the SPLC issued a statement saying the state stood to lose "millions more in lost tax revenue from Alabama businesses that will bear the brunt of boycotts of Alabama goods and services and lost sales to documented and undocumented immigrants who flee the state rather than deal with racial profiling and the state's anti-immigrant climate."

It's simply paranoia that legally documented immigrants will "flee the state" .. unless, of course, they are aiding and abetting illegals! Then they are criminals themselves.

As for illegals fleeing the state, that's a good thing on three counts: 1) they always cost state resources more than they're worth, so their leaving will save state and local services a lot of money, 2) Americans in those states will get their jobs back and so states will get their tax revenues back as well, and 3) whereever the masses of illegals flee to will experience a burden sufficient to compel them to enact an Alabama-type anti-illegal immigration bill.

All of the "repercussions" will be good things.

It is simply left-wing extremist power-play illegals-pandering that's falsely saying there'll be "boycotts".

There won't be any impactful boycotts.

Instead there's likely to be an increase in business with Alabama from true and grateful Americans for Alabama's courageous actions in respect of all American citizens and legal immigrants.

The right thing to do is thus rightly rewarded.

Originally Posted by CNN News Report

The Mexican government warned that the law could affect the human and civil rights of Mexicans living in or visiting the state.

Or, in more accurate words, "The Mexican government is afraid that all the U.S. dollars illegals are illegally siphoning from America and sending to Mexico would come to an end."

Yeah, we all know where Mexico stands on the matter.

Mexico could care less about the damage illegals do to America -- all Mexican officials care about is robbing us blind, which thereby devalues the dollar and its purchasing power for every American when the government simply prints more money to compensate for the loss.

Every foreign government that has been so-stealing from America in this manner should be severely chastised in the matter .. at the very least.

Indeed, I think these governments owe the U.S. government quite a hefty bill for the thieving behavior of their citizens!

Originally Posted by CNN News Report

Several immigrant and civil rights organizations filed a class-action lawsuit last week against a new Georgia law aimed at cracking down on illegal immigration.

What absolute nonsense!

On what basis does illegals tresspassing into America, stealing our jobs, forging and stealing identities, what does all that criminal behavior that rightly should get them pursed by law enforcement agencies, have anything to do with violation of their civil rights?

Next thing you know some extremist groups are going to file lawsuits against burglers and robbers and kidnappers and all from being apprehended and jailed for their crimes.

"Cracking down" on illegals simply means that our good immigration law is finally being enforced.

States and local agencies, though historically often liberal, have finally had enough of their coffers drained from costs the illegals suck from government services and the lost tax revenue the great, great majority of them cause by their under-the-table job stealing, that state and local governments are now finally forced to fight back .. or go bankrupt too like many of their citizens who've lost jobs to illegals have had to do.

Instead of egregiously trying to raise taxes on its citizens to pay for the expense the illegals cause, citizens who have been lucky enough not to have their jobs stolen by illegals, government is simply now fighting back for it's own survival, and doing so the right and ethical way. Every state should indeed take notice of Alabama's correct ethical behavior.

And the lunacy of liberal "immigrant and civil rights" groups -- all controlled by MCIs (Multi-Cultural Internationalists), the power-people in liberal land -- should rightly be ignored.

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

Great! Alabama is onboard!


Alabama governor signs tough new immigration law - CNN.com

This one I actually like far more than the Arizona law. First, officers can not stop someone simply for "looking a little too Mexican." But the second part, the part I really like and the part that is not being talked about as much; is the requirement for all EMPLOYERS to verify immigration status, and the stiff CRIMINAL penalties for employers who fail to do so. I however DO NOT like the requirement to check immigration status for education. Children did not choose to come here, they should not be punished with a lack of education. Furthermore a new generation of uneducated immigrants will just create a larger drain on resources. If they are here anyway... give them an education and at least give them a chance to be productive.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

This one I actually like far more than the Arizona law. First, officers can not stop someone simply for "looking a little too Mexican."

Your hyperbolic assumption is false. The Arizona law does not allow officers to stop someone simply for "looking a little too Mexican".

The Arizona law simply does not tie law enforcement's hands from practicing the right, appropriate and long-time reasonable and customary law enforcement practice of offender profiling, whereby detectives provide the officers with a profile of the appearance and behavior of the crime's offending perpetrator(s) and the officers bring in suspect(s) matching the description for questioning.

There's nothing wrong with that; that's good, ethical and legal law enforcement practice, and has been for centuries.

In this case, the primary offender profile is likely body-type (Latino, Asian, Middle-Eastern, together the vast majority of offending perpetrators) combined with loitering behavior in groups at pick-up spots for day-laboring combined with very minimum English language proficiency combined with an impoverished appearance combined with other suspicious behavior attendant to the crime. The secondary offender profile is likely the same as the primary only without the loitering behavior.

The key difference between your inacccurate hyperbole and the practice of offender profiling and suspect apprehension supported by the Arizona law is the pharse "combined with".

"Combined with" in offender profiling allows the officers to zero in on high percentage arrests, and reduces the amount of suspects brought in for questioning who are most likely innocent.

Nevertheless, it has always been an accepted part of law enforcement that innocent people are brought in for questioning. It happens all the time. Once they are questioned and law enforcement gathers more information to eliminate them from the list of suspects, they are released.

That is accepted law enforcement practice that nearly every American citizen supports, as they know that, by eliminating innocent suspects, it leads to the capture of the real criminal.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

But the second part, the part I really like and the part that is not being talked about as much; is the requirement for all EMPLOYERS to verify immigration status, and the stiff CRIMINAL penalties for employers who fail to do so.

Yes, absolutely a good thing.

The illegals -- who tresspass, job-steal, and identity-forge -- along with the immoral "Benedict Arnold" business owners -- who co-conspire with the illegals -- are both criminals and both need to be apprehended and punished for their egregious crimes against American citizens and legal immigrants.

This thread -- CA Cities Crack Down On Job-Stealing Illegals -- presents how, in the failure of the fed and states to do their jobs, some great cities in CA are doing it for them by cracking down on employers of illegals.

Both the illegals and the business owners who hire them are criminals.

In addition to going strongly after the illegals, we need to also go strongly after their co-conspirators, the business owners who hire them.

Both are equally guilty in the eyes of blind justice, and to keep the scales of justice rightly balanced, both need to be apprehended and indicted.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

I however DO NOT like the requirement to check immigration status for education.

Educational systems have limitations in the number of students they can take, limitations based on space, number of available professors, operating costs, etc.

So educational systems, especially state run systems dependent on proportioned tax revenues, set a maximum number of students they will accept.

So, given a choice between American citizens and illegal immigrants, who do you rightly believe has more of a priority to receive a good American education in America?

That's right, the local American citizen .. and if there is room left over below the maximum, then the local legal immigrants are next in line .. and if there is room left over below the maximum after that, out-of-state American citizens .. and if there is room left over after that ... .

Sadly, all too often nowadays, the maximums are reached long before local Americans can register.

And the reason? That's right: illegals are forging identities (a crime!) and registering ahead of them.

So, once again, illegal immigrants are stealing from American citizens.

This is fundamentally wrong!

And, it involves criminal behavior on the part of the illegals.

And being of a "young age" is no excuse for criminal behavior!

The right thing is for the illegals to return to their country of citizenship and get their education there.

It is fundamentally wrong to continue, as is happening, to deprive American citizens of their education in deference to education-stealing illegals.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

Children did not choose to come here,

Irrelevant.

Their beef is with their parents, not America.

It is not America's job to coddle criminals, but to arrest and indict them.

They need to return to their country of citizenship and get their education there ..

.. Not steal it from American citizens and legal immigrants.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

they should not be punished with a lack of education.

When they forge identity papers to steal Americans' educations from them, they thereby commit two crimes.

Why shouldn't they be punished?!

In America, people who are in dire straits and commit crimes, though we may have sympathy for them in their plight, whether their plight be poverty or other restrictive scenarios, at the same time we simply do not excuse their criminal behavior with appeal to their dire straights, as that would be unfair and thus unjust to the victims of their crimes.

In this case, obviously, due to normal understandable educational system maximums, the victims are American citizens and legal immigrants whose education the illegals are stealing.

It is simply wrong to bleeding-heartly ignore the victim by focusing unduely on "the poor" criminal.

This is simply common sense.

A lack of common sense is also no excuse for stupidly throwing a monkeywrench into the great American justice system as you are, in effect, advocating.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

Furthermore a new generation of uneducated immigrants will just create a larger drain on resources.

Again, you miss the fundamental issue in the matter: they don't belong here.

And there is also no bottomless money-source to support them all.

The right thing to do is to first begin to accurately present the matter by replacing the inaccurately inappropriate term "immigrants" with the accurately appropriate term "illegal immigrants".

Once that foundational mistake is repaired, it becomes easier to see what must be done in the matter: the illegals must be apprehened and indicted.

Once indicted and then convicted, they need to receive appropriate punishment, which involves initial incarceration, then deportation. It should also involve paying a fine and being prevented from entering America again.

Where deference may be rightly shown to the illegal immigrants who were children when they became illegal immigrants through no choice of their own, would be to wave the penalty of never being allowed to return to America.

After deportation from America, these innocent children should be allowed to file legal immigration request papers, then wait their turn in line outside our borders, and not at all be penalized in their legal immigration quest for ever having been in America illegally, that is, as long as they are still children when they leave America.

However, if they stay in America after becoming adults and do not do the right justice thing by American citizens and legal immigrants and return to their country of citizenship immediately on becoming adults, then, once apprehended and convicted, they should, understandably, not have their return restiction waved.

This is the right thing to do by American citizens and legal immigrants.

It is important to always keep sight of the foundational issues in the matter. In this case, it is foundational that the country of America provide for its own, and it is not America's reponsibility to provide for the citizens of other countries, especially at the expense of its own people.

That's basic country common law for every country on the planet.

The illegals are not our responsibility ..

.. And bleeding-hearts are irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

If they are here anyway... give them an education and at least give them a chance to be productive.

Not at the expense of American citizens. Never, ever!

Your phrase "if they are here anyway" rightly needs to be followed by "then apprehend, indict, prosecute, convict and punish them".

Any excuse that is cowardly presented to shirk our responsibility to American citizens and legal immigrants to uphold justice .. is simply wrong.

"Making them productive" is not only callously utilitarian in its objectification, but it is irrelevant to justice for American citizens and legal immigrants, and is thus not an appropriate focus.