Thread: illegal immigrants & luxury, aye

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy all!
....
now, lemme asks ye all, if ye were thar, dressed up in yer finest evenin' wear...would ye have called the Federal authorities to have them descend upon the event, or be that "someone else's" job? i mean, anyone who hath two brain cells operatin' woulda at least suspected that this port was teemin' with illegal immigrants.

if ye happen to be a virulent proponent fer dealin' aggresively with these illegal scumbag aliens, don't ye have a responsibility to not turn a blind eye? OR...be it "as long as the champagne keeps flowin', whatever!".

- MeadHallPirate

First thing - What makes you think that these people were here illegally? Lots and lots of people who come up from Mexico and points south end up working in hotels and restaurants as well as in various construction trades and agricultural positions. Just because they are of foreign descent does not mean that they are here illegally. Some certainly are but not all.

Second - It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go around raiding businesses just to find out if they are employing someone illegally. Lots of jobs in the hotel and restaurant business don't require a whole lot of communication skills and many of the legal immigrants who haven't picked up the host nation language end up in these positions. It's unfair and unwise to suggest that a number of employees who don't have great command of the language are here illegally. It may be an indicator when combined with other factors but in and of itself language skills have very little relation to whether someone is legally eligible for employment.

Third - Most businesses that believe they would have something to lose if it was discovered that they were illegally employing people simply don't illegally employ people. It's a pretty simple exercise to have someone fill out an I-9 and produce supporting documentation to verify the information provided. If the employee supplies credible documentation that they are eligible for US employment then it would be a violation of their rights to question that matter. Now, if "Juanita" produces an ID with a photo that's obviously not her that's a different story.

In essence, we all make assumptions based on perceptions and sometimes those perceptions are based on race or other appearance. Quite often our assumptions are right but not always and certainly they are not right often enough to justify making an accusation of illegal activity based solely on those assumptions.

Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor

While they may have been immigrants or guest workers, it seems a bit of a stretch to conclude that they were illegal. I have trouble believing that a major hotel chain would employ illegal aliens en masse.

BTW, pearl necklaces? What kind of party was this?!?

ahoy Fidei Defensor,

matey, the next time yer in a hotel...i don't care if it be a motel 6 or the Hilton Grand or the Westin or the Luxor Hotel in Las Vegas, take yerself a close look at whose workin' thar and make yer best guess, whilst keepin' in mind the statistics regardin' the employment 'o illegal immigrants.

finally, MeadHallPirate keeps all (well most) 'o his posts rated G. they be suitable fer minors.

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by wooyarn

Another interesting question.

Now that these CEOs and hotel owners have admitted, on paper that they hire illegals. Will the feds do anything about it. And will Arizona, with their new, court backed law, start raiding those hotels in their state?

I would bet, None of the above.

ahoy Wooyarn,

as one 'o me favorite scallywags, the departed Dblack woulda said...."ayup".

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by wooyarn

Another interesting question.

Now that these CEOs and hotel owners have admitted, on paper that they hire illegals. Will the feds do anything about it. And will Arizona, with their new, court backed law, start raiding those hotels in their state?

I would bet, None of the above.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy Wooyarn,

as one 'o me favorite scallywags, the departed Dblack woulda said...."ayup".

- MeadHallPirate

I don't see anything that indicates an admission to hiring illegals. The letter mentions a desired solution that:

Provides a solution to deal with the undocumented already here. Removing undocumented workers from an economy with near full employment would be devastating and enormously counterproductive; and

which is a position that I pretty much disagree with but it isn't an admission to hiring illegals.

Part of the solution to the illegal immigration problem IS to come up with a way to get foreign nationals who desire employment into the work force faster. Doing so, however, does not require us to simply dismiss the law out of "convenience".

Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor

While they may have been immigrants or guest workers, it seems a bit of a stretch to conclude that they were illegal. I have trouble believing that a major hotel chain would employ illegal aliens en masse.

That was my thinking as well. Sure, I'd expect a few illegals to slip through the cracks with forged paperwork and such... but for the most part, I'd expect them to be legal.

Brown? Yes.
Poor command of the English language? Yes.
Illegal? Maybe, hopefully not.

ahoy thar Lutherf,

Originally Posted by lutherf

First thing - What makes you think that these people were here illegally?

they be brown people, not speakin' english, and workin' at a Starwood Resort. the bulk 'o illegal immigrants in the United States be brown colored persons. them be me reasons fer suspicion.

Second - It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go around raiding businesses just to find out if they are employing someone illegally

actually, it makes a great deal 'o sense when 'tis more or less well known that these businesses make it part 'o thar standard protocol to hire illegal immigrants.

Third - Most businesses that believe they would have something to lose if it was discovered that they were illegally employing people simply don't illegally employ people.

imma not talkin' about most businesses...me scenario i presented wasn't a hypothetical, 'twas a real one and quite specific. i be talkin' about bein' at a high end hotel whose food services staff seemed to populated entirely by brown persons...and has a rich history 'o hirin' illegal immigrants.

In essence, we all make assumptions based on perceptions and sometimes those perceptions are based on race or other appearance. Quite often our assumptions are right but not always and certainly they are not right often enough to justify making an accusation of illegal activity based solely on those assumptions.

aye, quite often they be right, me hearty. so, what would ye do in this situation, given the facts i've laid out. would ye put down yer fork and stop eatin' yer scallop 'n prime rib dinner, call yer limo, and lift anchor in protest...or would ye summon forth the director 'o caterin' and inquire if the hotel employees were in fact, american citizens?

...or, would ye be havin' too darn good a time to care?

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy all!

mateys, me business was contracted last evenin' to do some work at a very swank gatherin' at the mighty Westin Hotel...'twas a gatherin' 'o one 'o the "big four" auditors in the United States.

thar was wealth on display everywhar ye looked...jeweled baubles dangled from the ear 'o every lass...men with tanned visages glided 'round the ballroom in thar tuxedos as they clinked champangne flutes and nibbled on toast points dolloped with chevre and caviar.

this event was hosted by one 'o the 10 biggest private companies in our great land, aye mateys? outside on the docks, a line 'o Town Cars rumbled as lasses in ballroom gowns were ushered into the plush luxery that awaited them inside.

whilst i was thar, i noticed one, curious thing...

all the servers (thar must have been 30...40...maybe more) seemed brown colored. i also noticed that none 'o them were speakin' to one another in English. i asked one 'o the wait staff to fill me cup (non-vintage Bollinger, bah!) and was rewarded with a smile and a bit 'o broken english from the lass who filled me glass.

amid all this splendor...all these pearl necklaces...all the sparkle and glitter, it seemed that it be likely that 'twas a mass 'o illegal immigrants that were makin' the joy and festivies possible.

when i got home to be me bunk, i made a quick bit 'o readin' and found this;


Hotel Executives Push Amnesty For Illegal Aliens The Urban Grind

Starwood, in case ye don't know, owns the Westin Hotel chain.

now, lemme asks ye all, if ye were thar, dressed up in yer finest evenin' wear...would ye have called the Federal authorities to have them descend upon the event, or be that "someone else's" job? i mean, anyone who hath two brain cells operatin' woulda at least suspected that this port was teemin' with illegal immigrants.

if ye happen to be a virulent proponent fer dealin' aggresively with these illegal scumbag aliens, don't ye have a responsibility to not turn a blind eye? OR...be it "as long as the champagne keeps flowin', whatever!".

- MeadHallPirate

Actually, I believe we would be better off with a permanent and market friendly solution to our "illegal" problem. By market friendly, I mean we could be generating revenue to defray the cost of government instead of simply spending revenue to not solve our problem and only increase our tax burden.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

they be brown people, not speakin' english, and workin' at a Starwood Resort. the bulk 'o illegal immigrants in the United States be brown colored persons. them be me reasons fer suspicion.

That's...actually a pretty crappy reason for suspicion. There are plenty of "brown colored persons" in the US that are here legally or were born here and are legal citizens, far more than are here undocumented.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy thar Lutherf,



they be brown people, not speakin' english, and workin' at a Starwood Resort. the bulk 'o illegal immigrants in the United States be brown colored persons. them be me reasons fer suspicion.



actually, it makes a great deal 'o sense when 'tis more or less well known that these businesses make it part 'o thar standard protocol to hire illegal immigrants.



imma not talkin' about most businesses...me scenario i presented wasn't a hypothetical, 'twas a real one and quite specific. i be talkin' about bein' at a high end hotel whose food services staff seemed to populated entirely by brown persons...and has a rich history 'o hirin' illegal immigrants.



aye, quite often they be right, me hearty. so, what would ye do in this situation, given the facts i've laid out. would ye put down yer fork and stop eatin' yer scallop 'n prime rib dinner, call yer limo, and lift anchor in protest...or would ye summon forth the director 'o caterin' and inquire if the hotel employees were in fact, american citizens?

...or, would ye be havin' too darn good a time to care?

- MeadHallPirate

I'm going to assume that your whole purpose here is a function of race baiting. Keep it up and you might just catch a "fish". Best of luck to you on that.

As far as what I'd do in the situation described? It happens all the time down here in Tucson and I'd do what I always do - I'd assume that the business owner was compliant with the law just as I tend to assume that everyone else is compliant on other matters of law. Until I'm given reason to believe that something illegal is happening I'm going to treat things as if nothing illegal is happening.

I've spent plenty of time on the phone with ICE regarding employers that I had a legitimate reason to suspect of illegal hiring and I'll continue to make those calls when warranted but "brown skinned/foreign language speaking" isn't enough of a reason to get my hackles up.

Originally Posted by lutherf

I'm going to assume that your whole purpose here is a function of race baiting. Keep it up and you might just catch a "fish". Best of luck to you on that.

ahoy Lutherf,

ye can assume all ye wish...but i do not race bait. 'fore i joined USPO, i don't think i'd have even seen all them brown folks servin' me, to be honest...i woulda thought 'o them as just "wait staff", folks who'd been paid to serve me own dinin' needs.

'tis only really be joinin' USPO and becomin' more aware 'o the illegal immigration issue that made me notice the staff...imma not sure i was the only one outta the 200 folks thar who took heed 'o this, but it be possible. i could link ye some 'o the more hysterical posts 'bout how these folks be takin' jobs that good, red blooded workin' americans would want, and how they be a blight on our nation's economy, but why bother? ye hath been ondeck fer a while, Lutherf, ye know that reams 'o them posts be out thar.

As far as what I'd do in the situation described? It happens all the time down here in Tucson and I'd do what I always do - I'd assume that the business owner was compliant with the law...

thats what i would do too, matey. i'd be far too busy enjoyin' meself to actually raise any objections to the matter, or even look into it. even if it did cause me to become angry o'er the idear that thar be illegal immigrants workin' in a place whar i was a patron, i'd save me outrage fer internet forums.

would it bother me if were dinin' in a business place that i know hires tons 'o illegal aliens, in an industry that be rich in illegal aliens, in a city that happens to be a sanctuary city and all i saw were folks who i thought could be illegal aliens? no...not really. as i said, i generally don't even notice that kinda thing, so i'd not be vexed by any 'o this...but i'd have thought conservatives here on USPO might think differently.

*salutes*

- MeadHallPirate