Anti-Americanism / American Appreciation Thread . . .

[electric-duane]

I hesitate to post a lot on internet forums because I just don’t have the time. I’ve been lurking here for a couple of months and haven’t really posted much of anything but I’ve read a lot and could think of a myriad of adjectives to describe my thoughts and feelings (i.e. appalled, delighted, interested, angry, etc.). The only conclusion I’ve really been able to make is that, while there are a lot of very intelligent people who post on this board, there is a fair amount of horrible dumb-asses.

I originally sought out this board because, as an American living in Germany for the past five years, I was really having a hard time finding people that could have a productive and objective conversation about politics in general and American / European politics more specifically. Unfortunately this board has proven that internet forums are no different, only a lot crasser.

This board seems to be made up of four types of people: The ignorant (common on both sides of the political fence), the educated and somewhat anti-American European, usually displaying qualities reinforcing the common stereotype of “all bark and no bite,” the educated American, usually left to defend the United States whether or not he always agrees with the politics and the silent lurkers such as myself, who wants to read, learn and research in order to be sure my opinion reflects the facts as much as it can.

Is it possible to give a thorough and objective explanation to the causes of anti-Americanism? I’ve asked this question hundreds of times in my life and have never really received an answer that was not blatantly biased or based on a carefully selected list of historical and cultural events and aspects that is a part of the United States.

Many of you rally behind the banner of “We’re not anti-American. We’re just unhappy with the current U.S. Administration” but discuss at great lengths supposed American inferiority when it comes to obesity, education, healthcare, foreign policy, culture, law, etc. as if the United States government monopolizes the world’s blunders associated with all of these subjects (and many more). But with anything ranging from war and foreign policy to education, media, environmental politics and everything in between it’s always possible to find an existing equal, which sort of gives the American people the ability to say, “hey, of course we’ve screwed up. But no more or less than you have.” The one thing I don’t want to do, however, is stoop to the level that many have by criticizing another nation without looking in the mirror.

So, again I ask, can anybody give me an objective and acceptable explanation to the causes of anti-Americanism? Can anybody attempt to justify the world’s anger against the United States while keeping in mind the good, bad and ugly that make up the history of all of the other nations of the world.

If you don’t know the answer and don’t want to try to answer or if you’re not anti-American list one thing you love about the United States and show people that there’s more to the U.S.A. than politics.

For me, I love the diverse array of music that has developing in, come from and can still be found in the U.S.A. The unique mix of all the world’s cultures and backgrounds is what makes the culture of the United States so unique. Some say we don’t have a culture, but these people are mistaken. The United States is home to jazz, blues, country and bluegrass music (among other less popular genres), which ultimately gave birth to rock and roll. Our cultural diversity has created something the whole world loves and can identify with.

[imported_Speakeasy]

Interesting thread, I'm looking forward to seeing what sort of discussion comes out of it. Since I'm not anti-American myself, I guess I can't really add much to the thread at this point, but I may hop in further down the line.

[Morgenes]

Is it possible to give a thorough and objective explanation to the causes of anti-Americanism?

If you ask the "average" european randomly on the streets I guess most have some beef with the USA. But I'm also quite sure only a very few are able to give an explanation where that beef comes from. It's exactly the same thing when you randomly ask an American about France, I suppose most will say that they have some beef with France but fail to give an explanation why, and will dodge to some old cliché that the French are arrogant etc.
Why is that so? Many european intellectuals, the media, artists, politicians, basically people with alot of influence in society rant alot about the USA over here. What do I see when I switch on the news? In the media the USA gets pretty much portrayed as an greedy, selfish and evil nation, that tries to control the world ressources (eg. oil in Iraq) etc. Most people just suck all that stuff up unquestioned and convert that info into anti americanism. It needs a certain degree of education and insight to not let all that negative media input control your feelings, an insight which many people lack. I also often find myself saying" typical American" . Usually emotion wins over reason, that's the problem, it's hard to overcome that.
So why is the USA portayed so negativly in the european media? I guess that the old and the new world are indeed politically drifting apart on many issues eg. preemptive wars, foreign policies, gitmo etc. Many years back the USA was still seen as a protector of democracy, today the USA is more considered as a bully that will pursue it's national interests without mercy, and the media of course magnifies that sentiment. So who can you blame? The USA for their policies? The European media, artists and politicians etc. for ranting against the USA? I don't know.
Maybe the recent anti americanism is something that can not be stopped due to political differences. Or do you believe electric-duane, that you can convince your fellow country men that the French are not half as arrogant as they believe?

[iamwhatiseem]

Anti-Americanism (not to be confused with Anti-Bush) IMO derives from a combination of several things...

* Basic Ignorance, no knowledge of history and little knowledge of current events - I believe this catagory comprises the greatest number of Anti-US.

* Put stock in media outlets such as BBC and London Times who run negative US related stories on a daily basis. While ignoring positive stories.

* Young and therefore ignorant and gullible.

* Envy

[Zeus]

Anti-Americanism (not to be confused with Anti-Bush) IMO

I'm glad you got in early with that, because a lot of people appear to meld the two together.

[Ash]

Here is something that I love about this country.

[Tim]

Fascinating topic. These words in particular caught my attention:

What do I see when I switch on the news? In the media the USA gets pretty much portrayed as an greedy, selfish and evil nation, that tries to control the world ressources (eg. oil in Iraq) etc. Most people just suck all that stuff up unquestioned and convert that info into anti americanism. It needs a certain degree of education and insight to not let all that negative media input control your feelings, an insight which many people lack. I also often find myself saying" typical American" . Usually emotion wins over reason, that's the problem, it's hard to overcome that.

I think the biggest surprise for me since coming to the forum is the level of open anti-Americanism among Europeans, Canadians and Australians - and (to be honest) the level of crude stupidity and arrogance that are so often a part of it.

Obviously there are several exceptions, and I have greatly enjoyed some wonderful conversations with high-quality people like Slart, Malvolio, Zedrow, RudyT, former forum folks like Febobo, Zoido, gato, frankpeter and newcomers like Billy from Nova Scotia - as well as Adrian and Sucre, who disagree, but actually talk WITH people instead of AT them. But the negative is much moe pervasive - and getting much worse. How many times can anyone read "9/11 is the fault of Americans"? Enough is enough.

I used to be a "europhile", and I think that is why I am so surprised and disappointed by the attitude and the comments. I suppose my own irritation is a swing in the pendulum. I used to be genuinely interested and very concerned about Euro-American relations in particular, relations with Germany and Britain in particular because of professional and personal connections. Now, I am generally cynical and I don't really believe it matters very much anymore. No doubt that will change again (hopefully) to a more pragmatic shrewdness.

[electric-duane]

If you ask the "average" european randomly on the streets I guess most have some beef with the USA. But I'm also quite sure only a very few are able to give an explanation where that beef comes from. It's exactly the same thing when you randomly ask an American about France, I suppose most will say that they have some beef with France but fail to give an explanation why, and will dodge to some old cliché that the French are arrogant etc.
Why is that so? Many european intellectuals, the media, artists, politicians, basically people with alot of influence in society rant alot about the USA over here. What do I see when I switch on the news? In the media the USA gets pretty much portrayed as an greedy, selfish and evil nation, that tries to control the world ressources (eg. oil in Iraq) etc. Most people just suck all that stuff up unquestioned and convert that info into anti americanism. It needs a certain degree of education and insight to not let all that negative media input control your feelings, an insight which many people lack. I also often find myself saying" typical American" . Usually emotion wins over reason, that's the problem, it's hard to overcome that.
So why is the USA portayed so negativly in the european media? I guess that the old and the new world are indeed politically drifting apart on many issues eg. preemptive wars, foreign policies, gitmo etc. Many years back the USA was still seen as a protector of democracy, today the USA is more considered as a bully that will pursue it's national interests without mercy, and the media of course magnifies that sentiment. So who can you blame? The USA for their policies? The European media, artists and politicians etc. for ranting against the USA? I don't know.
Maybe the recent anti americanism is something that can not be stopped due to political differences. Or do you believe electric-duane, that you can convince your fellow country men that the French are not half as arrogant as they believe?

Thanks for the comments.

Please remember, however, that the "French are arrogant" stereotype has as much merit as the "All Germans wear lederhosen, drink beer like it's water and eat sauerkraut for breakfast, lunch and dinner" stereotype and it’s a common stereotype throughout the entire Western world, including Germany and the UK (the two countries I’ve travelled through extensively throughout the last six years). Additionally, the concept of being anti-French doesn’t even exist in the USA.

This anti-Americanism isn’t anything new and it certainly shouldn’t be something a respectful media outlet should be fueling as you claim in your post. I will agree with you, though, European media is horribly and sadly one-sided which is ironic considering the general consensus is that the incredibly diverse U.S. media is criticized but being a tool of the government. I’ve never been in a country with a more diversified media than in the United States.

I – like you – am going to use the French (but I’m not going to stereotype or condemn them). When listing America’s long list of sins against the international community most Europeans will still bring up the U.S. involvement in the war in Vietnam without knowing that – from 1945 to 1954 – France fought its own war against Vietnam (and also lost very badly). Why is the United States hated so badly for assisting a Cold World ally in order to protect its interests (the further spread of Soviet-style communism) but the French get off easily even though they were attempting to re-colonize the country.

The above is what I meant about “for every blunder in American history, another country has been guilty of something similar – they usually get off a lot easier, though with regards to the history books.”

[Morgenes]

This anti-Americanism isn’t anything new and it certainly shouldn’t be something a respectful media outlet should be fueling as you claim in your post. I will agree with you, though, European media is horribly and sadly one-sided which is ironic considering the general consensus is that the incredibly diverse U.S. media is criticized but being a tool of the government. I’ve never been in a country with a more diversified media than in the United States.

I agree that the media over here is somewhat single sided, but that is because the USA hardly has any supporters anymore. Even the rightwinger and libertarian parties which use to be friendly with the USA have turned their backs on the States. They don't consider that country as their ideal anymore as they use to. Being against the USA has found common ground on the whole political spectrum, a politician praising the Iraq war probably wouldn't get elected anymore. There is simply zero support for US policy, ergo no one is defending the USA, not in the media nor elsewhere. But that doesn't mean that we don't have good media that does good in depth research. BBC for example I consider to be a good source, because they don't make cheap trash news. They mostly conclude that the USA is lying or being bad etc, but they are doing so in a good argumentative manner.
To have a high diversity in the media you need a high diversity in oppinions, but these diverse oppinions hardy exist concerning the USA. It seems to be a total consensus in all european nations that Bush and co are complete idiots.

I – like you – am going to use the French (but I’m not going to stereotype or condemn them). When listing America’s long list of sins against the international community most Europeans will still bring up the U.S. involvement in the war in Vietnam without knowing that – from 1945 to 1954 – France fought its own war against Vietnam (and also lost very badly). Why is the United States hated so badly for assisting a Cold World ally in order to protect its interests (the further spread of Soviet-style communism) but the French get off easily even though they were attempting to re-colonize the country.

You think that most Europeans rate US crimes differently then eg. French Crimes? Who do you mean with most europeans? You think the USA is hated because it supported an cold war ally? I can't see such developments, sorry, so I don't know how I could answer this question other than: "I can't see that being te case."

[electric-duane]

To have a high diversity in the media you need a high diversity in oppinions, but these diverse oppinions hardy exist concerning the USA. It seems to be a total consensus in all european nations that Bush and co are complete idiots.

Unfortunately I have to disagree here. Diversity in the media should be a natural product of product of good journalism. Critiscim is fine for the Editorial page or record/film reviews but not for current affairs journalism. I don't think a journalist's responsibility is to come to conclusions or express opinions but to tell the facts as they happen.

You think that most Europeans rate US crimes differently then eg. French Crimes? Who do you mean with most europeans? You think the USA is hated because it supported an cold war ally? I can't see such developments, sorry, so I don't know how I could answer this question other than: "I can't see that being te case."

Of course most Europeans rate US crimes differently than many crimes of other countries (there are exceptions, mind you). Threads like this wouldn't exist if it weren't the case. Don't you agree that the average European connects the United States to Vietnam moreso than they do France? Hell, most Americans don't know much about the French-Vietnamese War! A vague comparison: The average westerner connects genocide and mass murder moreso with whom? Nazi-Germany or Stalinist Russia? I'll place my bet on Nazi Germany although many historians estimate the number of civilian deaths during Stalin's purges to range anywhere from 20 million to 60 million.

Anyways, my intent is not to argue and I don't want to. I don't want to start a "who's better" discussion. I'm just searching for a definitive answer as to why anti-Americanism is on the rise and becoming a trend and I welcome each and every comment.

Thanks and peace out,

E-D