Thread: Berlin sucks!

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

^^ Seems like a normal process. A city rises from its isolated position back to a place of importance. As a matter of fact Kreuzberg and co are rather central locations with old building structures. Did anyone believe these places are going to remain dirt cheap as they were?

I don't know enough of the apartment market of Berlin but I have read once that the city still has a considerable rate of empty buildings. It would be interesting if that is the case only for some very periphery poor neighbourhoods or also within the more central districts. In any case it explains why relatively little is built.

In Vienna on the other side, which has experienced a revival following the fall of the iron curtain as well (but one of a very different and not as extreme sort), almost all residential buildings are fully occupied. The city proper is still growing at a considerable pace, which is why a lot of construction is going on. The good thing there is that subsidized apartments are mixed in with middle price and even high price ones.

Berlin is in sort of a unique position due to its history of separation, that also contributes to its monetary problems. Berlin, since until twenty years ago it was actually two cities has many things twice or multiple times. Opera houses, Zoos, theatres, public universities etc. things that contribute to Berlins reputation, but in the absence of a sufficient economic base are a drain on the citys budget. After WW II german industry moved westwards and companies like Siemens or banks like the Deutsche Bank see no neccesity to come back to Berlin six decades later.
Berlins potential is probably more to be at a crossroads between eastern and central Europe and to be Germanys probably greatest cultural melting pot once again. Berlin has potential for innovative startups, for arts, culture and the industries connected to it but it also needs to attract investors that really create jobs that right now prefer to go to Frankfurt, Munich or elsewhere.
But Berlins progress is also hampered by a let´s say a bit "insular" political class ( Berlin is a state of its own after all) that has driven the city almost into bancrupty already ten years ago. Corruption and nepotism appears to be relatively wide-spread in Berlin. And in the last decade the social democratic/communist coalition has not done much to change that.

I can see how it is not easy but I think Berlin has a real chance of attracting new companies also larger ones. It is not far from Poland and one would at least believe that there could be some synergy there because of that. Moreover, the political centre of Germany is nowadays there which might be attractive for some companies as well (rather service oriented ones probably however).

It would be interesting to know why Berlin is in such a different position nowadays than Vienna. Is it really that the infrastructure duplications are dragging it into bankruptcy? After all, Vienna lacked major company HQs before and still is not known for them either (even though some have moved regional HQs to Vienna in the meanwhile). In terms of tourism Berlin has passed by Vienna by a long shot already I think as well.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

I can see how it is not easy but I think Berlin has a real chance of attracting new companies also larger ones. It is not far from Poland and one would at least believe that there could be some synergy there because of that. Moreover, the political centre of Germany is nowadays there which might be attractive for some companies as well (rather service oriented ones probably however).

It would be interesting to know why Berlin is in such a different position nowadays than Vienna. Is it really that the infrastructure duplications are dragging it into bankruptcy? After all, Vienna lacked major company HQs before and still is not known for them either (even though some have moved regional HQs to Vienna in the meanwhile). In terms of tourism Berlin has passed by Vienna by a long shot already I think as well.

With the green party, it will be hard to attract new companies.

http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/...l?p3675214=all

Berlin is hardly 9 times bigger than Paris, since it has less than half the inhabitants of Paris. I think Paris is bigger if you include all suburbs.

I dont like Berlins because most building are so ugly. I would much rather live in Vienna if I had to choose.

Originally Posted by Sir Drinkalot

It's still only half the size of London in area, though.

It's also only half the size of London in terms of population, even though it is the EU's SECOND most populous city.

Berlin's tiny.

Berlin area only have 3,5 million citizens, where the greater London area have around 12-15 million IIRC. There are fewer people in Berlin now than before WW2.

Now, who other than germans would have such bad taste that they put an ugly concrete monument right next to a fine old church?

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

Berlin is hardly 9 times bigger than Paris, since it has less than half the inhabitants of Paris. I think Paris is bigger if you include all suburbs.

I dont like Berlins because most building are so ugly. I would much rather live in Vienna if I had to choose.

Yes, we must be fair.
Paris has 2,2 million citizens on 105 km².
If you include the suurounding area, Paris has 10 million citizens on 2700 km².

^^
True, this is more a matter of rather meaningless administration differences. Paris proper is really just the old city centre with somewhat above 2 mio inhabitants. Berlin proper is almost everything reaching far outside the dense core. So it is no surprise that Berlin covers a larger area.

@Wallaroo
Berlin is not an ugly city IMO. Berlin-Mitte doesn't feature so much historic substance (even though it has some highlights) but the inner suburbs are often very nice looking turn of century architecture. Berlin is also a very green city as far as I could see it.

I still rather live in Vienna though (), but that is not because Berlin wouldn't be an exciting and beautiful place to live in as well.

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

Berlin area only have 3,5 million citizens, where the greater London area have around 12-15 million IIRC. There are fewer people in Berlin now than before WW2.

We were 80 million Germans in 1914. Now we are about 60 million, I guess. Plus some VIPs, we are 82 million "withcitizens"...