Thread: The BIG LIE: Psychological Projection in the Service of Class Warfare

My Comment: I read this journal the other day and it goes in depth regarding the Orwellian speak from some sectors of the rightwing, however, it doesn't just stop there since it takes DLC "conservative Democrats" to task, too. The bit about Bob Altemeyer's Authoritarianism is especially interesting since this is something I've been reading a lot about. It's important, should one decide to examine the links regarding Rightwing Authoritarianism, that this examines the psychological aspects of the individual, not the political. For instance, the same study was done in the USSR, and those scoring high on the Rightwing Authoritarian scale tended to be Communist Party members, so while, politically, they were on the left, psychologically, in terms of measuring deference to authority, they were Rightwing Authoritarians.

To wit [quote from link above]:

We found that in both countries the high RWAs [Right Wing Authoritarians] believed their government’s version of the Cold War more than most people did. Their officials wore the white hats, the authoritarian followers believed, and the other guys were dirty rotten warmongers. And that’s most interesting, because it means the most cock-sure belligerents in the populations on each side of the Cold War, the ones who hated and blamed each other the most, were in fact the same people, psychologically. If they had grown up on the other side of the Iron Curtain, they probably would have believed the leaders they presently despised, and despised the leaders they now trusted. They’d have been certain the side they presently thought was in the right was in the wrong, and instead embraced the beliefs they currently held in contempt.

Anyway, that is one of many links found in the journal piece linked below and only one aspect of the underlying ethos of rightwing rhetoric we are finding today. The main point of the journal regards the projection that the rightwing often projects in order to score political points. I found the entry rather interesting, as well as, well sourced.

So, without further ado, here is:

The BIG LIE: Psychological Projection in the Service of Class Warfare

Bought to you by the fucking nutjobs at Democratic Underground....

Aren't they the ones who thought that the American Government causes earthquakes? Didn't they once claim that the Boxing Day Tsunami was also weapon being tested by the Americans?

Sorry, I don't read crap written by lunatics.

Originally Posted by California Girl

Bought to you by the fucking nutjobs at Democratic Underground....

Aren't they the ones who thought that the American Government causes earthquakes? Didn't they once claim that the Boxing Day Tsunami was also weapon being tested by the Americans?

I wasn't aware Democratic Underground was a publishing house.

Sorry, I don't read crap written by lunatics.

Say, did you ever verify that that U of I professor ever actually did that analysis indicating 1.5 million people showed up in DC?

Oh, that's right.......

Originally Posted by California Girl

Bought to you by the fucking nutjobs at Democratic Underground....

Aren't they the ones who thought that the American Government causes earthquakes? Didn't they once claim that the Boxing Day Tsunami was also weapon being tested by the Americans?

Sorry, I don't read crap written by lunatics.

Then don't read it. Why did you post in my thread then?

By the way, the journal is by one individual that happens to be at the Democratic Underground link. I don't know what the author's stance is on "American Government cause[d] earthquakes" or "Boxing Day Tsunami weapons being tested by the Americans," though I have read his journals for quite some time and have never found him mentioning those topics myself.

His opinion on RWAs and the projection of some elements of the Rightwing noise chamber is the topic of this thread.

Edited to add: You'd do well to read The Authoritarians (linked in the opening post).

Originally Posted by Rude Boy

We found that in both countries the high RWAs [Right Wing Authoritarians] believed their government’s version of the Cold War more than most people did. Their officials wore the white hats, the authoritarian followers believed, and the other guys were dirty rotten warmongers. And that’s most interesting, because it means the most cock-sure belligerents in the populations on each side of the Cold War, the ones who hated and blamed each other the most, were in fact the same people, psychologically. If they had grown up on the other side of the Iron Curtain, they probably would have believed the leaders they presently despised, and despised the leaders they now trusted. They’d have been certain the side they presently thought was in the right was in the wrong, and instead embraced the beliefs they currently held in contempt.

Interesting, but not entirely surprising. It's kind of reminiscent of how there is a lot of commonality between hardcore Christian right types and fundamentalist Muslim types, in terms of ideology. My critique for that particular bit is that, in terms of the psychological aspects, using the term "right-wing" makes no sense. Authoritarian (especially as a follower) is really all that needs to be addressed. If one is a government-worshiping authoritarian, first and foremost, the politics of the government (or the individual) are irrelevant.

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

Interesting, but not entirely surprising. It's kind of reminiscent of how there is a lot of commonality between hardcore Christian right types and fundamentalist Muslim types, in terms of ideology. My critique for that particular bit is that, in terms of the psychological aspects, using the term "right-wing" makes no sense. Authoritarian (especially as a follower) is really all that needs to be addressed. If one is a government-worshiping authoritarian, first and foremost, the politics of the government (or the individual) are irrelevant.

It's been awhile since I've read it, but he explains why he uses the terminology he does. The RWA (follower) not only has a deference for a authority, but also for traditional and conventional [conservative] values. So, while not politically based, the RWA scale does delve into ideology in terms of values and personality (this is based on memory). The Authoritarians is also based on research done by psychologists who had escaped Europe during the Holocaust. John Dean's Conservative's Without a Consciense is based on Altemeyer's work.

From Wikipedia:

The "right wing" in right-wing authoritarianism does not necessarily refer to someone's politics, but to psychological preferences and personality. It means that the person tends to follow the established conventions and authorities in society. In theory, the authorities could have either right-wing or left-wing political views.

It is interesting because the study was done on Israeli and Palestinian individuals (in reference to your commonalities between Christian and Muslim fundamentalists) with similar results:

Gidi Rubinstein similarly found that high RWAs among both Jewish and Palestinian students in Israel tended to be the most orthodox members of their religion, who tend to be among those most resistant to a peaceful resolution of the Middle East conflict.22 If their authorities endorse hostility, you can bet most authoritarian followers will be combative. A lot of high RWAs apparently do not think that the peacemakers will be blessed.

He also provided a role-playing game in the study that has some very interesting results.

Originally Posted by Rude Boy

My Comment: I read this journal the other day and it goes in depth regarding the Orwellian speak from some sectors of the rightwing, however, it doesn't just stop there since it takes DLC "conservative Democrats" to task, too. The bit about Bob Altemeyer's Authoritarianism is especially interesting since this is something I've been reading a lot about. It's important, should one decide to examine the links regarding Rightwing Authoritarianism, that this examines the psychological aspects of the individual, not the political. For instance, the same study was done in the USSR, and those scoring high on the Rightwing Authoritarian scale tended to be Communist Party members, so while, politically, they were on the left, psychologically, in terms of measuring deference to authority, they were Rightwing Authoritarians.

To wit [quote from link above]:

We found that in both countries the high RWAs [Right Wing Authoritarians] believed their government’s version of the Cold War more than most people did. Their officials wore the white hats, the authoritarian followers believed, and the other guys were dirty rotten warmongers. And that’s most interesting, because it means the most cock-sure belligerents in the populations on each side of the Cold War, the ones who hated and blamed each other the most, were in fact the same people, psychologically. If they had grown up on the other side of the Iron Curtain, they probably would have believed the leaders they presently despised, and despised the leaders they now trusted. They’d have been certain the side they presently thought was in the right was in the wrong, and instead embraced the beliefs they currently held in contempt.

Anyway, that is one of many links found in the journal piece linked below and only one aspect of the underlying ethos of rightwing rhetoric we are finding today. The main point of the journal regards the projection that the rightwing often projects in order to score political points. I found the entry rather interesting, as well as, well sourced.

So, without further ado, here is:

The BIG LIE: Psychological Projection in the Service of Class Warfare

For instance, the same study was done in the USSR, and those scoring high on the Rightwing Authoritarian scale tended to be Communist Party members, so while, politically, they were on the left, psychologically, in terms of measuring deference to authority, they were Rightwing Authoritarians.

uh yea okay then. First they cannot even acknowledged that their fair haired boys killed 10 of millions of their own citizens, now its flip flop psychobabble time, projection indeed.

Liberals are so chock full of intolerance for any idea or opinion other than their own, they cannot even describe their own pathology, forget copping to it, so they have to lay it off, its called pathological denial and a gross personality disorder called narcissism. Hows that for barroom psychobabble?

This article is just the usual screed. Worst president, rich corporate righties etc. I mean please….and frankly this is not new, was it supposed it be?

There are right wingers who go to the ultimate extremes, and the same things about the left, they skew the courts, politicians are machine pols, race baiting hucksters, local politicians using class warfare at its most mean and base level so as to redistribute wealth yada yada yada…seen it , been there, done that, got the t shirt…. both sides when they trot this out as one big mass lollapalooza just bore the hell out of me….as screeds go this one isn’t even very good. I have seen much better form the left. This is just another longer than most, more boring than most bitch fest.

Oh and this is the best-


Of great potential for the future of our nation, in my opinion, is the rise of the Internet as a means of spreading information. A Pew Research Center poll showed that between 2001 and 2008 the percentage of Americans who received their news primarily from the Internet rose from 13% to 40%. That is a tremendous rise in just 7 years. Furthermore, by 2008 the percent of voters under the age of 30 whose primary source of news was the Internet equaled that of television. Though the quality of news obtained through the Internet varies a great deal, the best thing about it is that the corporatocracy (currently) exercises much less control over it than it does over TV, radio, or print journalism. Consequently, corporate control over the information Americans receive has loosened considerably since 2001. And that may largely explain the misfortune of the corporate controlled Republican Party. Who knows how far this trend will continue into the future?
So I think that Americans are wising up. Information is power, and I believe we are much better informed than we were just a few years ago. Now it’s about time that our elected politicians stop bowing down to the corporatocracy. In order to make that happen, we the people need to show them that they will face dire consequences for continuing to do so.

Uhm hello contradiction alert… So hows Obama and his mantra of prgms doing? Jesus Christ I know hes in an alternate world but don’t they have OTHER Pew polls and Rasmussen or Gallup over there? I mean we use the internet…right?So whats the excuse now? If a clear majority of us don’t go along with the maestro or Pelosi we are caught in some projection again? This guy should definitely not leave his day job,

Originally Posted by Rude Boy

My Comment: I read this journal the other day and it goes in depth regarding the Orwellian speak from some sectors of the rightwing, however, it doesn't just stop there since it takes DLC "conservative Democrats" to task, too. The bit about Bob Altemeyer's Authoritarianism is especially interesting since this is something I've been reading a lot about. It's important, should one decide to examine the links regarding Rightwing Authoritarianism, that this examines the psychological aspects of the individual, not the political. For instance, the same study was done in the USSR, and those scoring high on the Rightwing Authoritarian scale tended to be Communist Party members, so while, politically, they were on the left, psychologically, in terms of measuring deference to authority, they were Rightwing Authoritarians.

To wit [quote from link above]:

We found that in both countries the high RWAs [Right Wing Authoritarians] believed their government’s version of the Cold War more than most people did. Their officials wore the white hats, the authoritarian followers believed, and the other guys were dirty rotten warmongers. And that’s most interesting, because it means the most cock-sure belligerents in the populations on each side of the Cold War, the ones who hated and blamed each other the most, were in fact the same people, psychologically. If they had grown up on the other side of the Iron Curtain, they probably would have believed the leaders they presently despised, and despised the leaders they now trusted. They’d have been certain the side they presently thought was in the right was in the wrong, and instead embraced the beliefs they currently held in contempt.

Anyway, that is one of many links found in the journal piece linked below and only one aspect of the underlying ethos of rightwing rhetoric we are finding today. The main point of the journal regards the projection that the rightwing often projects in order to score political points. I found the entry rather interesting, as well as, well sourced.

So, without further ado, here is:

The BIG LIE: Psychological Projection in the Service of Class Warfare

All the little lies…

The corporate side represents the market forces: international competition. This competition has been going on since Mesopotamian civilization. This kind of thing is brought about through insecurity and fear of attack. The ancient Egyptians had the security of the dessert and thus lived securely and made enormous advances.

Those who do not live securely have to tolerate war. War is theft – pure and simple. So those who rely on war as a problem solver, or, as our Military Industrial Complex does, as a market force that employs Americans and services the GDP, are those with a propensity to lie about almost anything: it’s about selling.

The days of national security are over. There is no geography, even in Afghanistan that is going to keep a civilization, or any culture within it, completely secure. Or for that matter, mildly secure. It’s all about competition. And that’s who the right is. Orwell’s Big Brother was just a metaphor for what was kind of an eerie manifestation of the eye of God: the panopitcon and the idea a centralized (monarchial) state always watching. I think that Orwell was playing on the insecurity most people have of being watched. And let us not forget that “security and watching” is now a market too.

That’s who these guys are and that’s their game. The secret to the entire thing in my view lies in the US Constitution. The corporate must be removed as a player with a human / individual value that needs to be protected.