Comedy.

If you know nothing upon a topic, better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open mouth and remove all doubt.

Btw, Nietzsche supplies most of the logical tools you need to support your own personal view upon these religious issues. You diss your defender.

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[I]Remember what the dormouse said, 'feed your head'. [/I]

Fuck Nietzsche.

Nietzsche is dead, God is not. And no, he doesn’t supply anything, nothing original came from his mind, all his thoughts are supplied for him by someone else or he observed Gods nature and gleaned information from that the same as I or anyone else, his mind is not special or unique in any way. Worship your precious philosophy all you want, it avails you nothing and dilutes any possibility of submitting to real Truth which is knowledge, man is not the source of knowledge, but I guess you just don’t get that.

He came up with nothing original?

I'm sorry, I don't argee with a lot of what Nietzsche said, but he and Kieregaard invented existential thought. He revolutionized western philosophy. Nietzsche was the source of the ideas that modern psychology was based on, his ideas have been a driving force of cultural change for the last fifty years. Disagree with the man if you want, but don't downplay his importance.

Back to the arguement at hand, Good and Evil are not seen throughout the natural world. Animals are amoral, plants are amoral, geography is amoral. The only time we discover Good and Evil is when we look at human beings. If Good and Evil were external forces, shouldn't we see them throughout universe and not just in man? Furthermore, the changing definition of Good and Evil between societies and over time would seem to suggest that Good and Evil do not exist independently of man, but rather are created and interpretted by man.

Would Evil exist without religion? Yes, there would still be value judgments which would classify things as harmful and beneficial.

Would Good and Evil exist without man? (ie are Good and Evil independent, external forces?) All the evidence points to no.

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Yes, the little green fist up there is a symbol of Earth First! No, I'm not an eco-terrorist, nor do I agree with eco-terrorism...I just thought it looked cool.

"..Satan, instigator and promoter of military factions, [was] born of the diversity of religions.."

Michel de Nostredame - Epistle to Henri II, 27th June 1558

My only problem with Good and Evil, is that they are not as easily quantified. That is why I tend to stick to Ethics. It is especially helpful to use ethics instead of good and evil in economics.

For example, can anyone give me the mathematical formula for good or evil? With ethics, an objective contrast and comparison is more easily made.

Evil is a label, caused by humankind's tendency to project understandable motives onto actions which they don't comprehend.

Ironically, I think our understanding of it comes from a relatively self-centred place - we assume that someone is aware of and intends to bring about the full consequences of whatever their actions are, when in most cases they don't seem to know or care what they are.

I wouldn't say the 9/11 hijackers, for example, wanted to kill 3000 people because they wanted to destroy 3000 lives and bring grief to hundreds of thousands more, but because they thought it was the best thing to do from some sort of fucked up utilitarian standpoint.

(Please don't take this example as license to turn this into a thread about terrorism, politics, islam, the wtc or anything related. It's just the first example that came to mind.)

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Boy, I used to have really cheesey signatures.

If the bolded is true, then Evil only exists if some "higher" Evil exists. In this case, religion, a man-made institution, is certainly not the cause of evil - the "higher" force to which you allude is.

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[b][SIZE=2]"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."[/b][/SIZE]

-Thomas Jefferson

Revolutionized, maybe, invented, no, he ever invented a single thought or ideal, no one has, its impossible. If I’m to give credit where credit is due then I will look for the source of these ideas and Nietzsche is not a source for anything, nor am I or anyone. I have thought many things that later read from some famous author, do they own the intellectual rights to these thoughts, I think not, no one does but the author of truth and knowledge.

Good and Evil require a being of higher capabilities to persuade choice, the vacuum of space lacks this form of intelligence as do all animals but humans, only humans have choice and choice is required for this arena of Good and Evil to play out this separation game. If you don’t choose between the two then you can be neither Good or Evil. Logical?


This is Evil doing its work of impersonating the Truth, it has always been so, man wants to be God so he does the same and impersonates Truth. There is an absolute form of both Good and Evil and they can be expressed as Love and selfishness or God and Satan (the authors). No other idea I have thought or heard is solid and unmovable and perfectly explain the workings of human nature, purpose and this universe.



Yes it would exist without man as the author of Evil is not a man, however all of us are spirits with souls rather you live in a physical body or not, and this spirit and soul is what’s required for the choice between the two forces, so in some way the essence of man is required for the existence of Evil.

I agree with roddy, when he states that Evil is a merely a label (in the form of a subjective value judgment.)

Good and evil, are too subjective to be useful as a metric. Ethics are much simpler.

This idea was discussed at some length here:

http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/foru...ad.php?t=23272

if you're interested

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[b][SIZE=2]"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."[/b][/SIZE]

-Thomas Jefferson