Evil without religion? - Page 8 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum Archives

kingdaddy · #71 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad_Michael

It is not just a "cute" phrase, it is horrifically ugly one with notorious associations.

So you have a problem with Truth, or the idea of it?

That would explain a lot.

drgoodtrips · #72 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad_Michael

It is not just a "cute" phrase, it is horrifically ugly one with notorious associations.

I suppose that one could describe torturing people until they confess to imaginary sins as "cute". Personally, however, that isn't the first word that comes to mind...

The expression has, however, reminded me of a thread that I've thought of starting - "To lie or not to lie". I've found in my experience that "getting something off my chest" can be extremely liberating. However, I've also found that telling the truth (where a white lie might have sufficed) can be extremely constricting. And, on the other end, I've often found that I'm frequently worse for knowing the truth of some matters, despite my general mantra that I prefer knowledge to lack thereof.

But, I suppose this is a bit far afield of whether or not religion is the "cause" of evil. Perhaps a more interesting discussion could result from religious treatment of lying (as "evil") versus a practical one.

drgoodtrips · #73 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielpalos

Hypothetically, StateTopia's policy results in subsidizing potential labor market participants to not provide traditional labor input to the economy. The metrics for this policy are the employment/unemployment rates. Anything above zero percent unemployment is considered the failure rate in the market for labor.

This sounds like an extremely verbose explanation of 'welfare state'? Is that what you're getting at?

SMadsen · #74 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdaddy

Explain how giving someone the power of choice makes you responsible for that choice.

No need to. You explained it with your "logic" of how books (i.e. humans) are not the source of knowledge.

Rotten · #75 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

First, I have two nits to pick: 1) You assume that man invented God, which may seem to be common sense, but it is an unprovable assertion, and thus leaves you standing on shaky logical ground to assume it and 2) I do not believe that it is fair to say that witch hunters and Inquisitors were all (or even mostly) acting out of benevolence - many of them were likely predators and sadists on the order of Dr. Menegle who were simply given a convenient outlet for their 'appetites'.

That said, I understand the point that you are making about religion being used to justify killing in the name of 'good' but we have seen this in secular spheres as well, such as Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. People were slaughtered wholesale for the "greater good" and there was no religion involved. Indeed, any time a demagogue decides that the loss of some lives is acceptable in improving some other lives, we have a situation where men are killing for "good" and for an intangible ideal.

Indeed huge massacres have been done after religion, but before? When "God died" nationalism/ideology took over the mantle of religion, as killing-machine. Few (in the western world) die for religions anymore, but rather their country.

Otter · #76 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotten

Indeed huge massacres have been done after religion, but before? When "God died" nationalism/ideology took over the mantle of religion, as killing-machine. Few (in the western world) die for religions anymore, but rather their country.

And I'll assert again that both concepts have merely been laid over the old territorial imperitive, where only our own tribe counts as 'real' people. Perhaps the technology wasn't available at that time to engineer huge massacres, but the intent was the same.

drgoodtrips · #77 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 07:39 AM

I'm in agreement with Otter - the general trend that leads to "killing for good" seems to be the dehumanization of a group of people, or at least the categorization of those people as lesser humans. "Us and them" is all about drawing arbitrary lines of moral justification.

danielpalos · #78 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

This sounds like an extremely verbose explanation of 'welfare state'? Is that what you're getting at?

I thought we were discussing public policy for the public good. If a welfare-state can promote the general welfare for the public good, does a warfare-state promote the general warfare for the public evil?

Hank · #79 (**permalink**) 08-14-2006, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotten

Is religion the cause of evil?

According to Nietzsche, as my relativly young mind understand him, the majority, the stupid, the weak, the last man, is the creator of evil by choosing their enemy in the Übermensch out of jealousy etc. They decide that the Übermensch is "evil", just because he is.

I'm not trying to discuss Nietzsche here, though I'd like to do that sometime aswell.

My point being, religion may not be the cause of all war (but has a part in that aswell), but the creator of the "us & them" (good & evil) attitude, which itself is the reason for most wars. Discuss...

You know but what you’ve been taught and shown. Man is war like and some just happened to be religious. A Godless world would be but political dictates arisen from the animal kingdom. (The biggest biker dude would have what small amount of pleasure that may exist.)

SMadsen · #80 (**permalink**) 08-14-2006, 06:50 AM

Hmmm .. it seems to me like most individuals of whatever species have what small amount of pleasure that may exist. But then, who's to say that they live in godless worlds?

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode