Thread: Union Curbs Rescue A Wisconsin School District

Well, well... how about that?

"This is a disaster," said Mark Miller, the Wisconsin Senate Democratic leader, in February after Republican Gov. Scott Walker proposed a budget bill that would curtail the collective bargaining powers of some public employees. Miller predicted catastrophe if the bill were to become law -- a charge repeated thousands of times by his fellow Democrats, union officials, and protesters in the streets.

Now the bill is law, and we have some very early evidence of how it is working. And for one beleaguered Wisconsin school district, it's a godsend, not a disaster.

The Kaukauna School District, in the Fox River Valley of Wisconsin near Appleton, has about 4,200 students and about 400 employees. It has struggled in recent times and this year faced a deficit of $400,000. But after the law went into effect, at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday, school officials put in place new policies they estimate will turn that $400,000 deficit into a $1.5 million surplus. And it's all because of the very provisions that union leaders predicted would be disastrous.

All on the backs of the poor teachers, right? No, not so much:

In the past, Kaukauna's agreement with the teachers union required the school district to purchase health insurance coverage from something called WEA Trust -- a company created by the Wisconsin teachers union. "It was in the collective bargaining agreement that we could only negotiate with them," says Arnoldussen. "Well, you know what happens when you can only negotiate with one vendor." This year, WEA Trust told Kaukauna that it would face a significant increase in premiums.

Now, the collective bargaining agreement is gone, and the school district is free to shop around for coverage. And all of a sudden, WEA Trust has changed its position. "With these changes, the schools could go out for bids, and lo and behold, WEA Trust said, 'We can match the lowest bid,'" says Republican state Rep. Jim Steineke, who represents the area and supports the Walker changes. At least for the moment, Kaukauna is staying with WEA Trust, but saving substantial amounts of money.

Wow... who knew?

Anyone that ever took part in free markets...

But wait! There's more!

Then there are work rules. "In the collective bargaining agreement, high school teachers only had to teach five periods a day, out of seven," says Arnoldussen. "Now, they're going to teach six." In addition, the collective bargaining agreement specified that teachers had to be in the school 37 1/2 hours a week. Now, it will be 40 hours.

The changes mean Kaukauna can reduce the size of its classes -- from 31 students to 26 students in high school and from 26 students to 23 students in elementary school. In addition, there will be more teacher time for one-on-one sessions with troubled students. Those changes would not have been possible without the much-maligned changes in collective bargaining.

Those pesky work rules again... imagine... having to work 40 hours a week.

And what happens to the new found money?

Finally, the money saved will be used to hire a few more teachers and institute merit pay.

OMG! hiring more teachers and paying people more! WOW

Closing with:

It is impossible to overstate how bitter and ugly the Wisconsin fight has been, and that bitterness and ugliness continues to this day with efforts to recall senators and an unseemly battle inside the state Supreme Court. But the new law is now a reality, and Gov. Walker recently told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the measure will gain acceptance "with every day, week and month that goes by that the world doesn't fall apart."

In the Kaukauna schools, the world is not only not falling apart -- it's getting better.

Not going to help in those special elections is it?

Union curbs rescue a Wisconsin school district | Byron York | Politics | Washington Examiner

Wow... unqualified proof that the Republican program works and works well... and no one is interested.

Surprise!

Not so much.

Without knowing all of the details, here are some myths/misleading info I suspect from the story:

The lower priced health premiums will likely have higher deductibles, lower caps, higher co-pays, or other ways to gouge more money from the insured. It was a benefits cut.

No normal teacher works less than 40 hours a week. 50-70 hours per week is closer to the norm, with preparation of lesson plans, grading, organizing the classroom, continuing education, meeting with parents, etc. Much of that can be done at home as efficiently as it can be done at school, so raising the minimum time spent at the school to 40 hours doesn't seem to be gaining much other than reducing flexibility for the teacher.

If a teacher is teaching 6 periods instead of 5, the that explains how the class sizes are reduced. That doesn't mean the teacher has any more time to spend 1-on-1 with the students as claimed. It just makes for a more exhausting day where the teachers don't even really have time to take a shit much less prepare activities or other teaching related prep-time. What do you bet their lunchtime is counted as their period where they aren't teaching?

If you cut your worker's benefits by 10% and reduced their flexibility do you think you would get a higher quality product from them or a lower quality product or no difference? If no difference or a better quality product what are you doing posting here, start cutting their benefits!

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

No normal teacher works less than 40 hours a week. 50-70 hours per week is closer to the norm, with preparation of lesson plans, grading, organizing the classroom, continuing education, meeting with parents, etc. Much of that can be done at home as efficiently as it can be done at school, so raising the minimum time spent at the school to 40 hours doesn't seem to be gaining much other than reducing flexibility for the teacher.

Welcome to the real world? I hardly know of any employee that works 40 hours a week or less. The only place that exists are in places like McDonalds and that only applies to the endless supply of kids that work there, not the managers. 50 hours is normal and up to 60 is not abnormal.

Originally Posted by fishjoel

Welcome to the real world? I hardly know of any employee that works 40 hours a week or less. The only place that exists are in places like McDonalds and that only applies to the endless supply of kids that work there, not the managers. 50 hours is normal and up to 60 is not abnormal.

Um.. I don't work a minute over 40 hours a week, and neither does my wife. Come to think of it, most of my friends and family only work 40 hour weeks, unless there's overtime pay involved. If I can't make a living wage off of 40 hours/week, then I seek employment elsewhere.

And do any non-management McDonalds employees work 40 hours a week? That would mean that Micky D's would have to give them benefits like health insurance. No, most of them are only scheduled for 30 hours or so per week, so they can be kept in that 'part-time' status, with no benefits.

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

Without knowing all of the details, here are some myths/misleading info I suspect from the story:

The lower priced health premiums will likely have higher deductibles, lower caps, higher co-pays, or other ways to gouge more money from the insured. It was a benefits cut.

No normal teacher works less than 40 hours a week. 50-70 hours per week is closer to the norm, with preparation of lesson plans, grading, organizing the classroom, continuing education, meeting with parents, etc. Much of that can be done at home as efficiently as it can be done at school, so raising the minimum time spent at the school to 40 hours doesn't seem to be gaining much other than reducing flexibility for the teacher.

If a teacher is teaching 6 periods instead of 5, the that explains how the class sizes are reduced. That doesn't mean the teacher has any more time to spend 1-on-1 with the students as claimed. It just makes for a more exhausting day where the teachers don't even really have time to take a shit much less prepare activities or other teaching related prep-time. What do you bet their lunchtime is counted as their period where they aren't teaching?

If you cut your worker's benefits by 10% and reduced their flexibility do you think you would get a higher quality product from them or a lower quality product or no difference? If no difference or a better quality product what are you doing posting here, start cutting their benefits!

wow you went right from the teachers unions hand book, no facts but you copied it very well. here are the facts that teacehrs hate to admit.
a teacher is paid more than a person with the same education, a teacher works hundreds of hours less for that bigger pay check. a teacher pays little if anything for health care for them and their familes unlike that equally educated person in the real world. once a teacher gets tenure it is next to impossible fto fire them no matter how bad of a job they do unlike people in the real world.
so basilcy teachers have it very easy compared to everyone else but they dont see reality.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Well, well... how about that?

All on the backs of the poor teachers, right? No, not so much:

Wow... who knew?

Anyone that ever took part in free markets...

But wait! There's more!

Those pesky work rules again... imagine... having to work 40 hours a week.

And what happens to the new found money?

OMG! hiring more teachers and paying people more! WOW

Closing with:

Not going to help in those special elections is it?

Union curbs rescue a Wisconsin school district | Byron York | Politics | Washington Examiner

We could have probably saved even more money by requiring an S&P CEO to make sure they don't lower their wage ratio average and engaged in freer trade with less developed economies to teach classes in the US.

However, on a more serious note, why did the school district do such a seemingly poor job in bargaining with a union? Maybe an S&P CEO doing some moonlighting for the district could have been better.

Originally Posted by sailorman126

a teacher is paid more than a person with the same education, a teacher works hundreds of hours less for that bigger pay check. a teacher pays little if anything for health care for them and their familes unlike that equally educated person in the real world. once a teacher gets tenure it is next to impossible fto fire them no matter how bad of a job they do unlike people in the real world.
so basilcy teachers have it very easy compared to everyone else but they dont see reality.

I'm generally anti-union and generally support the 'union-busting' portions of the legislation in question, but it does sound to me like this is a classic case of 'anything you haven't done or don't know how to do must be easy'.

Teachers typically spend a good amount of their own money on room supplies and decorations. They also spend a good amount of time 'off the clock' doing class prep and/or grading papers. They also have to deal with kids all day, which can be a lot more stressful than most people think.

The main problem I see with the changes described is the 40 hrs required at school. A lot of teachers select that profession because it allows for greater flexibility for taking care of their own kids while doing the above 'off the clock' work at home. Taking that away could lose more good teachers than the other issues. The changes to healthcare and/or benefits sound like a reasonable cost-cutting measure. The changes to class periods taught could go either way since I don't know the details of their scheduling. But the requiring 40 hrs at school is at first glance Not a good idea.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Well, well... how about that?



All on the backs of the poor teachers, right? No, not so much:



Wow... who knew?

Anyone that ever took part in free markets...

But wait! There's more!


Those pesky work rules again... imagine... having to work 40 hours a week.

And what happens to the new found money?



OMG! hiring more teachers and paying people more! WOW

Closing with:



Not going to help in those special elections is it?

Union curbs rescue a Wisconsin school district | Byron York | Politics | Washington Examiner

If teaching is such an easy gig Why don't you give it try for a year or two. I did it for 32 years and I found it more demanding than any other job I held including soldier and house painter.

i was about to say...if any of you think teaching is such a great gig, then WHY DON'T YOU TEACH? why is there such a shortage of good teachers?