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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2006, 05:11 PM
SamInTheBurgh's Avatar
SamInTheBurgh SamInTheBurgh is offline
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Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thematic-Device
What was the case, that Bush doesn't want to brief the SSCI or the HPSCI because he's worried that the senators who were briefed might reveal it to the press, or use it to debate against him on the floor.

Or that bush has been commiting major breaches of the law, so far the laws he's broken include: the Geneva Convetions, the Stored Communications Act, FISA, and has openly stated his intent to violate many more (signing statements) as well as exhibiting a flagrant disregard for the constitution.
So every piece of classified information in the Federal Government is classified because it has to do with Bush breaking the law?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2006, 09:36 PM
doniston's Avatar
doniston doniston is offline
me now,
 
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: southern Cal
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Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheBurgh
So every piece of classified information in the Federal Government is classified because it has to do with Bush breaking the law?
I don't beleive anyone said that every peice was of that description, but some certainly are not because he was breaking the law, but because some of the laws he is breaking come under that catogory.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 07:33 AM
jviehe's Avatar
jviehe jviehe is offline
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Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus
Another example of avoiding oversight. Yes, this post is critical of the Bush Administration. So if you normally avoid these type threads, leave now. But take off your blinders before you travel any great distance.
I encourage those who stay and wish to comment on this to read the entire article. However, this link might require registration, depending on how many times you visit. With that in mind, I have taken out with my trusty pen-knife and extracted the highlights.


I would bet that the same BS happens on the Senate side as well.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...unread?mode=PF
Why is this critical of the Bush Admin? It is Congress that is the problem. They are not doing their duty, then they complain abotu why they cant do it, but they do nothing to make it so they can do it. Perhaps youve heard that congress can go into a closed session such that what they say wont be made public. Why dont they do that? Answer is politics. They dont care about whats in the bill, but how it makes Bush look.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 10:00 AM
Lazarus's Avatar
Lazarus Lazarus is offline
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Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: .
Posts: 447
Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

Well, it is rather disheartening that no one has seen the true Bush agenda in effectively silencing criticism or not allowing Congressmembers to raise concerns about the lawfullness of programs.
Bush is using Congress as his personal attorneys - using some warped attorney-client privilege, or as priests - not able to reveal confessionals.

If I were in Congress and called in to a briefing with this Administration, I would be hesitant to attend. I have no doubt that many bombshells were dropped in these briefings, bombshells totally unrelated to the stated, expected topic of said briefing(s).
But once a program is mentioned, even during a sneak-attack, that triggers a gag on those in attendance. The official conducting the brief has his list of attendees and knows who is no longer able to raise objections. And he also knows who remains to send invites out to.
If the Admin pulled that shit on me as a Congressman, I would definitely give others a heads-up as to what to expect and for them to weigh heavily whether to accept any invitations or even to talk to certain individuals. There is the chance that the ( classified ) topic will accidentally be mentioned, and then having the culprit admit that the subject should not have been brought up and that he expects the information to be held to the same standards as if it were divulged in an official capacity. Oh, and before he lets you walk away, he must mention the ramifications if this info is shared with others. Quite the underhanded way to quash critical, necessary open discussion of legally questionable programs.
-----------------------------------------
jviehe -

The last time Democrats forced the Senate into closed session, the Republicans screamed bloody murder.
If you recall, that was an attempt to force Senator Roberts to cease obstruction, do his f ' ing job, stop shielding Bush from his dubious twisting ( cherry-picking ) of pre-war intelligence, and release Phase II of the Intel Report.
That was a long time ago, and yet we still wait while he still drags his heels.
I guess that the elections will loosen Roberts' grip.
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 11:16 AM
reino reino is offline
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Member Since: Aug 2006
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 75
Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

It's starting to get pretty obvious that many politicians secretly hate America.
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 12:27 PM
jviehe's Avatar
jviehe jviehe is offline
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Member Since: Jan 2004
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Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus
Well, it is rather disheartening that no one has seen the true Bush agenda in effectively silencing criticism or not allowing Congressmembers to raise concerns about the lawfullness of programs.
Bush is using Congress as his personal attorneys - using some warped attorney-client privilege, or as priests - not able to reveal confessionals.

If I were in Congress and called in to a briefing with this Administration, I would be hesitant to attend. I have no doubt that many bombshells were dropped in these briefings, bombshells totally unrelated to the stated, expected topic of said briefing(s).
But once a program is mentioned, even during a sneak-attack, that triggers a gag on those in attendance. The official conducting the brief has his list of attendees and knows who is no longer able to raise objections. And he also knows who remains to send invites out to.
If the Admin pulled that shit on me as a Congressman, I would definitely give others a heads-up as to what to expect and for them to weigh heavily whether to accept any invitations or even to talk to certain individuals. There is the chance that the ( classified ) topic will accidentally be mentioned, and then having the culprit admit that the subject should not have been brought up and that he expects the information to be held to the same standards as if it were divulged in an official capacity. Oh, and before he lets you walk away, he must mention the ramifications if this info is shared with others. Quite the underhanded way to quash critical, necessary open discussion of legally questionable programs.
-----------------------------------------
jviehe -

The last time Democrats forced the Senate into closed session, the Republicans screamed bloody murder.
If you recall, that was an attempt to force Senator Roberts to cease obstruction, do his f ' ing job, stop shielding Bush from his dubious twisting ( cherry-picking ) of pre-war intelligence, and release Phase II of the Intel Report.
That was a long time ago, and yet we still wait while he still drags his heels.
I guess that the elections will loosen Roberts' grip.
Thats rediculous. We have a 3 branch system, which each branch having equal power under the law. Congress was chosen by the people, as was the president, and they have chosen how they want to act. If anyone is doing anything illegal, then the courts will have their say. So far they have rules in Bush's favor. Bush has no more power than we or congress gives him, so stop wining that its all Bushs fault, and convince your friends to put John Kerry, vietnam vet, in office you dont like it. Or leave the country. Our system works just fine, you just dont like that it happens to disagree with you.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 01:27 PM
SamInTheBurgh's Avatar
SamInTheBurgh SamInTheBurgh is offline
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Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,072
Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doniston
I don't beleive anyone said that every peice was of that description, but some certainly are not because he was breaking the law, but because some of the laws he is breaking come under that catogory.
But that is the logic he is using. Nobody knows what was in that legislation because it was classified. Thematic is making an assumption that because it is classified it points to Bush breaking the law. There is absolutely no evidence or fact behind his statements whatsoever. He is just creating a conspiracy theory.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 02:20 PM
jviehe's Avatar
jviehe jviehe is offline
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Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 5,619
Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheBurgh
But that is the logic he is using. Nobody knows what was in that legislation because it was classified. Thematic is making an assumption that because it is classified it points to Bush breaking the law. There is absolutely no evidence or fact behind his statements whatsoever. He is just creating a conspiracy theory.
Your first statment is not true at all. Select congress members chosen by congressional rules have full access to classified information. They choose not to review it.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 02:37 PM
bigTlilODD's Avatar
bigTlilODD bigTlilODD is offline
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Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,778
Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

millions of people read classified info everyday. It's not hard to keep it a secret. Those that tell secrets are doing it for financial gain.

I'm not sure how much the house and the senate needs to know. I want to say that at least several of them should be briefed on a majority of sensative information. But they also seem to be the most corrupt and easy to compromise. The majority are not use to handling classified info like the people that gather it are. Most people that work in intel tend to have a "Hmmm, I'm not sure if this is classified or not, so I won't say anything just in case." attitude. Where it seems that politicians have the exact opposite attitude.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 03:34 PM
Lazarus's Avatar
Lazarus Lazarus is offline
Lieutenant Governor
 
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: .
Posts: 447
Default Re: This is just unbelievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jviehe
Thats rediculous. We have a 3 branch system, which each branch having equal power under the law. Congress was chosen by the people, as was the president, and they have chosen how they want to act. If anyone is doing anything illegal, then the courts will have their say. So far they have rules in Bush's favor. Bush has no more power than we or congress gives him, so stop wining that its all Bushs fault, and convince your friends to put John Kerry, vietnam vet, in office you dont like it. Or leave the country. Our system works just fine, you just dont like that it happens to disagree with you.
In a perfect world...........
And by the way, I am not a quitter. Not today and not tomorrow.
Problems never are solved by running from them - unless your experiences prove otherwise. In that case I will defer to the master.
 

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