Oh yes the old cliche conspiracy theory that overlooks the fact that Hizbullah started it with the blessings of IRAN.

Iran has been calling for Israel to be wiped off the Map and now their minions are going for it.


So what did I say about people falsely making the USA out to be the SUPREME LEADER OF THE WORLD just so they have an excuse to oppose it.

As if America can make them stop fighting each other?

As if you could make two people stop fighting each other?

Thanks Andrew, you proved my point.

Of course you do.

Being a smug Canadian who opposes the idea of a lone Super Power, you find it necessary to blame the USA for anything and everything.

But I am impressed that you have the honesty to at least include Iran in your blame.

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Everybody talks about Women and Children. What about the Men?

Maybe they are just trying to point out the Injustice of our nation's stance in the matter.

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A mugawump is a bird who sits on a fence with his mug on one side and his wump on the other--[COLOR="red"][B]
A fence sitter-upon[/B][/COLOR] IE: a moderate/independent:

[COLOR="Blue"]Any fool can find fault, but it takes a thinking person to find the appropriate solution[/COLOR]

Are you suggesting that there is no communication between Israel and the US on security and military matters? And I have no problem with the argument that Hezbollah was acting under Iranian influence, that makes sense to me, and i have argued it myself in other threads and in this thread.
Iran has been calling for the end of the Zionist regime in Israel. That is a whole lot different than wiping Israel off the map. All you are doing is repeating a western media mistranslation of the rantings of a populist shit disturber who does not call the shots in Iran.

Actually it is the white house that has the open and transparent strategy of being the supreme leader of the world. It is already being widely reported in the media that america is waiting to demand a cease fire, which of course implies that they can indeed demand a cease fire. These are coming from inside sources in the admin. You might not think they have that power, but they do, and the rest of the world knows they do.

Yes they can.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/wo...f6f&ei=5087%0A
President Bush has said that it is up to Syria and Iran to end the crisis by exerting pressure on Hezbollah. American officials have signaled they will allow Israel another week to continue its assault.

Not forever sure, but are you totally naive to americas role in the ME and the influence they have there?

You have a point?


Actually i do completely oppose the idea of a lone super-power, especially one as jingoistic and militant as the US.

And since the US is the lone superpower who has stated as a matter of policy and strategy they wish to aggressively shape the world as they see it, it is totally appropriate and necessary to criticize them when it goes horribly wrong.

Andrew

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If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle...your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.
~Martin Luther King, Jr.

[IMG]http://www.truthout.org/imgs.art_01/3.081006BC2.jpg[/IMG]

Perhaps, but this particular cherry-picked timeline is of no importance at all, unless one believes that the entire Israel / Palestine issue started in January.

Moon presents a highly biased viewpoint that uses every trick in the book to justify, exonerate and excuse the atrocities committed by Palestine.

Matt

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Low rates. Inquire within.

I agree that the US should not be involved anymore. I know that American-Israeli relations were forged in the Cold War and not because America is against Arabs or Muslims. Israel has become a liability and should be let go.

But that does not mean the Palestinian struggle is right.

What about the Injustice of Arabs and Muslims wanting to kill all the Israelies?

You know "wipe them off the map" or "drive them into the sea" or "finish what Hitler started"

I know you think that is just posturing. But I don't.

We all thought OBL was just posturing when he put out his Fatwa video calling on all Muslims to kill Americans. Then 911 happened. He was serious.

How do you know that Ahmenjahd, Hizbullah and Hamas are not serious? You do not know.

Honestly, I just do not understand how you, Doniston, can talk about injustice of America and Israel and then give a free pass to Hamas, Hizbullah and The Iranian Theocracy who want to kill people based on their nationality and religion.

I just don't understand why Palestine can not exist peacefully next to Israel. The rest of us all accept and tolerate different people. And we do it quite peacefully.

Why are the Palestinians an exception?

I see clear as day, that it is Hamas and Hizbullah, by their words and their actions who are not letting peaceful coexistence happen.

When do the Israelies talk about wiping out Arabs and Muslims? I have never heard Jew say anything like that. But I have seen Jews here in the US stand up for other minority groups and they didn't have to.

Why is that Muslims seem to have problems with every other religion including christains, jews and hindus and even each other, yet everyone else gets long fine and only has problems with Muslims?

It is because Islam has been highjacked by extremists and you are ignoring that.

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Everybody talks about Women and Children. What about the Men?

I agree that it is important to look at the entire history. And I just read a long but refreshingly honest and clear debate between Shlomo Ben Ami (formerly Israeli Foreign Affairs Minister) and Norman Finklestein.

Check it out: http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/art...p?pg=11&ar=140

I came away better informed.

But I would add that the reason i think this particular timeline is important to know is because in my daily conversations with people (not here, but the physical people around me) i am shocked at how many people think hezbollah started firing rockets at Israel before Israel started their attack. Most of them are confused that this was in response to the kidnapping.

Andrew

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If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle...your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.
~Martin Luther King, Jr.

[IMG]http://www.truthout.org/imgs.art_01/3.081006BC2.jpg[/IMG]

believe me if israel get out of the Westbank and gaza and remove the illegal setlments the next day hamas and hizballa will be disarmed and all the arab states will have normal relations with israel, but as long as israel kill civilians al stael lands the hamas and hizballa will keep on finding support which keep them alive

many popular fundamilist jewish parties in israel call for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs

Ok you may have a point.

But can you tell me why it went wrong?

Did America make it wrong or did some fanatical locals sabotage it and make it wrong for their own non-democratic, thuggish agenda?

I can see who is doing all the killing in Iraq and blowing everything up, and it is not Americans.

Yes I agree America should not be there and Bush fucked up. So what now? Are they going to destroy themselves to spite one man or one nation?

Sounds rather juvenile and stupid to me.


Maybe can you explain to me why Japan and Germany are such successful nations now after US occupation. Did America make them learn english, stop practicing their local traditions and culture? Did America reshape them in it's image? How are they doing now?

You are lucky that you live in Canada and you get all the benefits of being an American with none of the detriments.

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Everybody talks about Women and Children. What about the Men?

Muslim,

Let's be real.

What was the excuse to attack Israel before they occupied the West bank and Gaza? How come Arab Nations refused relations then and launched war after war?

Why does Hamas and Hizbullah call the destruction of Israel? And who is going to disarm them? They are not going to disarm themselves.

Yes Israel should pull out and return to the 47 borders and Jerusalem should be it's own city state. That's the only way. But as long as Israel gets attacked then they have an excuse. It's all a self fulfilling cycle. Violence begets violence. Both sides have an excuse.

There will only be peace in the Middle East when the extremists do not have any power. And racism and discrimination are no longer tolerated.

One just has to look at the treatment of sub-continent workers in the Gulf to see that prejudice is still tolerated and accepted in the Middle East.

Yes, it's a problem everywhere.

Of course there's a few. But they are not in control. They are not the majority. And you can find plenty of peace activist Israelis who protest their Govt.

Where as in Palestine. Hamas is in control elected by the people. And I have never seen any Palestinians protesting for peace. But I have seen a lot of suicide bomber parades.

Nobody could make peace with that.

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Everybody talks about Women and Children. What about the Men?

if someone invades ur town and then asks you to live in the east side of it and moves all the population of the west side to the east side will you accept that or will you fight

the palestinians and lebanese will disarm them when israilies do their part and return the occupied territories and stop killing civilians


i cant see how land grab and buillding illegal settlments is considered self defence