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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2006, 10:06 AM
MattLarson's Avatar
MattLarson MattLarson is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Yeah, a bite that infected the US with malaria and ensured a Republican-free White house for the next two decades.
Wow. So a Democrat controlled government is some sort of disease akin to malaria....

And they say I am partisan

Matt
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2006, 10:25 AM
doniston's Avatar
doniston doniston is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly
I gotta agree with him.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2006, 10:30 AM
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goober goober is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

This whole Iraq thing is just a Democratic attempt to distract the voters from the real pressing issues of Flag burning and gay marriage that so threaten our way of life.
(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain)
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2006, 04:18 AM
Curly Curly is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

There have been a number of people - left and right - who have said that what is happening in Iraq is a civil war, or is getting close to being a civil war. Here's another take, from someone close to the situation.

Civil war warning blow to Blair, Guardian Unlimited, Aug. 3, 2006:

Quote:
Britain's outgoing ambassador to Baghdad has warned that civil war is the most likely outcome in Iraq, according to a leaked report.

In a confidential memo to ministers, William Patey also predicted the break-up of Iraq along ethnic lines.

The grim assessment from Britain's most senior civil servant in Iraq will have come as a blow to Tony Blair and his attempts to portray Iraq as "at a new beginning" on the road to a stable democracy.

The judgment was contained in Mr Patey's final telegram, or e-cable, from Baghdad before he left the Iraqi capital last week - details of which were obtained by the BBC. Among those who received the letter were the prime minister, the foreign secretary, the defence secretary, the leader of the House of Commons, and senior military commanders in both Iraq and the UK.

"The prospect of a low intensity civil war and a de facto division of Iraq is probably more likely at this stage than a successful and substantial transition to a stable democracy," Mr Patey wrote.

"Even the lowered expectation of President Bush for Iraq - a government that can sustain itself, defend itself and govern itself and is an ally in the war on terror - must remain in doubt."

But the memo also says that the position is not hopeless, although it adds that Iraq will remain "messy and difficult" for the next five to 10 years.

Talking about the Shia militias blamed for many killings, Mr Patey said: "If we are to avoid a descent into civil war and anarchy then preventing the Jaish al Mahdi [the Mahdi Army] from developing into a state within a state, as Hizbullah has done in Lebanon, will be a priority."
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2006, 09:20 AM
doniston's Avatar
doniston doniston is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly
There have been a number of people - left and right - who have said that what is happening in Iraq is a civil war, or is getting close to being a civil war. Here's another take, from someone close to the situation.

Civil war warning blow to Blair, Guardian Unlimited, Aug. 3, 2006:
how about that??? ---Somebody agrees with me and also sees the handwriting on the wall.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2006, 09:29 AM
Curly Curly is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

Quote:
Originally Posted by doniston
how about that??? ---Somebody agrees with me and also sees the handwriting on the wall.
And he's not the only one....

Head of U.S. command: Iraq civil war possible, CNN.com, Aug. 3, 2006:

Quote:
The head of U.S. Central Command, Gen. John Abizaid, acknowledged Thursday that Iraq could descend into civil war.

"I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it, in Baghdad in particular. And that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move toward civil war," he testified at a hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"Failure to apply coordinated regional and international pressure ... will further extremism" and could lead to a widening and more perilous conflict, he said.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 06:07 AM
Curly Curly is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

... the killing continues throughout the country.

Iraq attacks leave at least 30 dead Tuesday, CNN.com, Aug. 8, 2006:

Quote:
Gunfire and bombs left at least 30 people dead Tuesday across Iraq.

Gunmen stormed a bank in northern Baghdad's Raghiba Khaton neighborhood, killing five people and stealing about $5,000 before fleeing, an emergency police official said.

Elsewhere in the capital, a pair of roadside bombs exploded in the Arabi market Tuesday morning, killing at least 10 people and wounding 69 others, according to police.

Earlier Tuesday, three roadside bombs exploded in central Baghdad's Nahdha district, killing nine people and wounding eight others, including three police.

At least two of the bombs targeted Iraqi police patrols, an official said.

Gunmen killed 10 people in Iraq's Diyala province during the past 24 hours, according to a Diyala Joint Coordination Center official.

Attackers shot dead three people Tuesday in two incidents in Muqdadiya, north of the Diyala provincial capital of Baquba. One of the victims was a teacher.

In Baquba, gunmen killed two people in drive-by shootings.

On Monday night, gunmen attacked an Iraqi army patrol in Muqdadiya, killing five people, including four soldiers and a civilian, a Baquba police official said.

In the north-central town of Tikrit, a police officer was killed and eight others wounded in two roadside bombings Tuesday, said an official with the Salaheddin Joint Coordination Center.
Quote:
The number of U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war stands at 2,585. Seven American contractors also have died in the conflict.
Investigator: U.S. soldier poured kerosene on raped, slain Iraqi, CNN.com, Aug. 7, 2006:

Quote:
One of the U.S. soldiers accused of raping and killing an Iraqi and slaying her family told investigators that after the killings he poured kerosene on the girl's bullet-ridden body, according to testimony Monday in a military hearing.

In an interview with the U.S. Army's Criminal Investigative Division in June, Spec. James P. Barker, 23, said that he held the girl down while she was raped by another soldier, Sgt. Paul Cortez, during an incident in March in Mahmoudiya, according to testimony from CID Special Agent Benjamin Bierce.
Using the Reuters doctored photo example, how far up the chain of command should heads roll for this?
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 01:49 PM
hairballxavier hairballxavier is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

Quote:
But it's a historic admission: That job one for many American troops in Iraq is no longer fighting al-Qaeda terrorists, or even insurgents. Rather, it is trying to quell an incipient -- if not already raging -- sectarian civil war, with Baghdad as ground zero.
This is good news. Seems that they are more interested in fighting each other than fighting the USA nowadays. Couldn't have nothing to do with the USA killing droves of terrorists could it?.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 01:56 PM
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

Honestly, probably not. They're just focusing more on their civil war, and we're presenting less opportune targets.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2006, 02:20 PM
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Maxture Maxture is offline
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Default Re: Meanwhile, in Iraq....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairballxavier
This is good news. Seems that they are more interested in fighting each other than fighting the USA nowadays. Couldn't have nothing to do with the USA killing droves of terrorists could it?.
I am afraid that is just wishful thinking. To the contrary, an increasingly sophisticated Iraqi guerilla appears to have forced US troops to abandon street patrols in daylight, according to a report in Los Angeles Times.


Quote:
Marine officers say some of the insurgent teams coordinate their attacks with other groups of fighters, sometimes signaling to each other with pigeons.

When insurgents or their supporters spot an American patrol moving through the streets or a squad holed up in a house watching over a street, they release pigeons from rooftop coops. A flock of birds rising in the sky is a sign that Americans have been spotted.

In Ramadi, such coordinated attacks occur many times a day.

"Last year, when I got IEDed, I looked around for the triggerman," said Chief Warrant Officer Jonathan Rabert, an infantry weapons officer. "This year, I look for an ambush."

The Marines here, part of the 3rd Battalion, 8th Regiment, say they faced a far less sophisticated enemy last year when they operated around Fallouja and the Abu Ghraib prison.

"He never came out and fought us with complex attacks," said Lt. Col. Stephen Neary, the battalion commander. "Last year there was nothing complex. Here he likes to put things together."

The danger of the complex attacks, along with the rising heat, has forced the Americans to put a stop to most daytime patrols. Instead, they roam the streets after sunset, when their night-vision goggles give them an advantage.

When the Americans venture forth on a daylight patrol, the insurgents attack — as the U.S.-Iraqi patrol along the walled street discovered.

When the patrol came under fire, the Marines saw the alley but instinctively did not move toward it. Some jumped over the wall next to them. Others kicked in a courtyard gate and ran through it.

Part of the patrol was caught on the other side of the street.

Sgt. Ron Nipper, a squad leader with India Company's 4th Platoon, quickly organized covering fire with a SAW, a light machine gun, so the rest of the Marines and Iraqi soldiers could dash into the courtyard.

"Spray that SAW, and you move over here!" Nipper yelled.

Boosh-boosh-boosh — the Marines opened fire. Moments later the rest of the patrol ran into the courtyard.

Behind the protection of the walls, Roger Noel, a Navy corpsman, bandaged the leg of the injured Iraqi soldier and the Marines plotted their return to base.

The far wall of the courtyard led to the alleyway and an exit. The Marines jumped over the wall and into the alley. There, one Marine moved toward the alley entrance to provide security for the rest of the patrol.

"Stop! Stop! Stop!" Nipper shouted. "IED! IED!"

Less than 20 feet from the Marines was the simple but deadly bomb.

Later, Staff Sgt. Joe Modesto, the patrol leader, said the insurgents did not expect to hit any of the Marines or Iraqi soldiers in the initial volley but wanted to drive them to the alley.

"They were trying to find a way to get us toward the IED so they could detonate it," Modesto said.
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/f...atimes326.html
You say that US troops have killed "droves of terrorists" in Iraq. So far the number of Coalition soldiers killed in Iraq is more than 2,800. I think that indicates that the "exchange rate" (i.e. the number of killed Iraqi combatants for each killed Coalition soldier) is rather bad for the Coalition. I think the "exchange rate" was about 1:10 in Vietnam. But in Iraq it is out of the question that it could be 1:10. I would say that perhaps it is 1:1. If we include all casualties - i.e. also wounded combatants and troops - the exchange rate ought to be to the resistance's/terrorists' favour: The extensive body armour of the Coalition troops (something most guerillas lack) has saved many Coalition troops from getting killed. The present number of Coalition troops wounded in action (due to the DoD) is far above 19,000. I think it is absolutely excluded that more than 25,000 armed combatants/terrorists have been killed or wounded by Coalition troops in Iraq.

In short: Of course the US troops have killed a large number of armed resistance combatants/terrorists in Iraq, but for each casualty the US inflict on the armed resistance, they seem to take one casualty themselves, and that has to be very frustrating throughout the US forces in Iraq.

I am very surprised that this has not caused a very serious debate on the obviously lacking capacity of the US troops. Who is responsible for this? But instead those responsible seem to be sticking their heads into the sand.

The world's mightiest armed forces have become bogged down by a few thousand lightly armed Arab guerillas. What would have happened if these US troops would have faced not these unorganised and often ill-trained guerillas, but instead the elite troops of the Hezbollah? Well, I can tell you that even if the Americans don't draw any conclusions from that, the Hezbollah and their supporters in Iraq (which do not from part of the Sunni resistance) do. As do the Iranians.

Last edited by Maxture; 08-08-2006 at 02:27 PM.
 

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