It wont be easy, but that is still the only possible course, if peace is truly what is desired. Ideological and opolitical sacrifices will have to be made on both sides, and Israel has proven to be just as stubborn as her enemies in this regard.

Hezbollah was created by Israeli aggression. I have never once said all force is evil, i recognize the principles of self defense, and that sometimes force is necessary for self-preservation. On the other hand, i also recognize when force is excessive and cruel, and therefore counter-productive to the goals of self-preservation, especially when dealing with groups whose numbers seem to multiply with the excessive use of force causing collective punishment through collateral damage. The fantasy world that bothers me so much is the one that believes anything positive can be achieved by the slaughter of innocents. We know that terrorists dont achieve their goals by this method, why should we believe states do?

Andrew

__________________
If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle...your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.
~Martin Luther King, Jr.

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I disagree with your statement that Israel has shown to be just as stubborn as its enemies, on the contrary, Israel has time and again shown to be the only side willing to compromise. While Israel has forcefully removed many of thier own settlers Hamas still can't remove the aim of destroying Israel from thier charter. Israel pulled out of Lebanon 6 years ago, but Hezbollah can't stop launching rockets and cross border raids. Israel's action have shown a persistant desire for peace. Hamas and Hezbollah have demonstrated nothing but a desire for the destruction of Israel.

I also don't understand how you can view Israeli actions as "collective punishment" Israel has gone to excessive steps to avoid civilian casualties. What other military has dropped leaflets letting people know where they are going to bomb? Unfortunately Hezbollah has shown they are unwilling to fight a war in open terrain, instead choosing to hide behind women and children so they can then blame Israel when civilians are killed. Unfortunately a large number of people in the world appear to have fallen for this tactic and have laid the blame of civilian killings at the feet of Israel, instead of on the heads of Hezbollah where the blame should rightfully be placed.

There is a reason that rational people do NOT negotiate with terrorist......They lie. As I am sure will be evidenced when they break the current 'cease fire.'


j-mac

__________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.


- John Stuart Mill

By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer
44 minutes ago

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Tens of thousands of Lebanese jammed bomb-cratered roads Monday as they returned to still-smoldering scenes of destruction after a tenuous cease-fire ended 34 days of vicious combat between Israel and Hezbollah.

Highlighting the fragility of the peace, Hezbollah guerrillas fired at least 10 Katyusha rockets that landed in southern Lebanon early Tuesday, the Israeli army said, adding that nobody was injured. The army said that none of the rockets, which were fired over a two-hour period, had crossed the border and so it had not responded.

What a surprise!!

Not a suprise at all. Hezbollah claimed before the cease-fire that Israeli soldiers still inside lebanon are 'fair game'. Just as Olmert claimed Hezbollah is still a group they will go after. The cease fire simply means Israel has called a halt to collective punishment, and so has Hezbollah. The fighting is certain to continue, just on a smaller scale. Until, if at all, an international force occupies South lebanon, there will certainly be skirmishes between the parties. The last thirty days were a waste, things are worse now.

Andrew

__________________
If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle...your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.
~Martin Luther King, Jr.

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They are a waste because Israel wasn't allowed to finish the job. Had Israel been allowed to destroy Hezbollah the world would be a better place.

Hopefully the Lebanese government will step up and disarm Hezbollah, though I am not hopeful.

Israel has never offered Palestinians a contiguous state, as per their demand. Israel has refused to compromise on the issue of Jerusalem, while Palestinians have offered offered compromises on this issue. Israel has steadfastly refused to negotiate at all on any diplomatic level with the democratically elected government of Palestine. Israel has refused to compromise at all on illegal settlements, and in fact Olmert welcomed over 800 NA and British Jewish immigrants and religious colonialists to Israel just today, on the ceasefire. That is pure stubbornness.
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Two things. The last five years have seen a huge increase in the amount of settlers and settlement activity in occupied Palestine. Pulling back from Gaza had more to do with future military strategy than it did with compromise. It was done unilaterally, not under peaceful negotiation and debate. And Hamas has offered to consider accepting a Jewish state if Israel is willing to finalize its borders. I know this is not what people want, but there is room for negotiation there.

Neither can Israel stop their kidnappings and raids and shelling of civilians.

Do you really consider cluster bombs "going to excessive steps to avoid civilian casualties"?
After they have bombed their highways and bridges, and then giving them 24 hours to get out while they destroy their homes and businesses? There is nothing in annals of the laws of the proper conduct of war that allow for that at all. I guarantee you that you could not leave your city and protect your loved ones from air raids, (let alone your home and business) if your roads and bridges were destroyed and you and everyone else in your town or city were all trying to leave at the same time, within 24 hours or less. That is ridiculous. The fact is Israel cleansed southern Lebanon of its human population, which is called collective punishment.

Yes, unfortunate. Is that supposed to be an excuse to kill people with no chance of political or military gain? And when you say "hide behind innocent women and children" do you include the Israelis who hide behind the increasing population of illegal Israeli settlers who buffer Israel proper from the wrath of suicide bombers and rocket shells?

Both parties share lots of blame in these conflicts. They are both guilty of the age old human fault of nationalism and religion, in fact, we all are. I have never been able to figure out why both parties cannot just have one country, one person, one vote. Why can’t we all ditch the dead end of hyper-nationalism and fundamentalist faith?

Andrew

__________________
If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle...your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.
~Martin Luther King, Jr.

[IMG]http://www.truthout.org/imgs.art_01/3.081006BC2.jpg[/IMG]

And i hope they never destroy hezbollah, not because i like Hzbollah, but because doing so would require genocide and ethnic cleansing.

I you want to hope, hope for a political solution.

Andrew

__________________
If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle...your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.
~Martin Luther King, Jr.

[IMG]http://www.truthout.org/imgs.art_01/3.081006BC2.jpg[/IMG]