Fact of the matter is IAM Israel played right into the hands of Iran. Frankly I think they do loose in the big picture. They have essentially destroyed Lebanons infrastructure which had just been rebuilt after the civil war. That was a mistake because it did in fact turn the world against them and it did not stop Iran from resupplying Hezbollah through Syria. Iran outsmarted Israel this time by getting the Israelis to do the one thing that would in fact turn the world away from the Iranian nuclear issue for a while and to turn public opinion against Israel when initially it was for Israel.

The Israeli government acted stupidly here. They were fighting a guerilla force. To think you could bomb them out of existance was just plain stupid. They needed to respond to a guerilla force with guerilla tactics of their own. Instead they killed women and children, who admittedly were being used by Hezbollah. However that has always been part of Hezbollahs plan, it is part of Hamas's plan for that matter as well. They really are willing to accept civilian casualties if in the end it wins the propoganda war for them. In this case it did.

I find myself asking how could Israel have been so stupid as to think that the world would accept the continued bombings and the accompanying reports of the deaths of women and children not to mention the systematic destruction of southern Lebanon. They had to know that sooner of later the US would pressure them to stop, and it appears as if that has finally happened.

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[IMG]http://www.gersbachia.com/gort%5Fanim%5B1%5D.gif[/IMG]
The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Yup my sentiments too in the propaganda war Gort.

Seems simpletons like us not in the Goverments and looking at the situation peripherally see this why cant the goverments?

But really in the end does it matter. Hearts and minds war will never be won in the public eye. Israel can play into the propaganda war. Do you think Islam will ever except the existance of Israel the root question.

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[img]http://www.vosaclub.org/uploads/1013716823439885ec82c03.jpg [/img]

[B]Hardcore Conservative ![/B]

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

[I]I'm a country Bumpkin Im not as articulate or educated as some here. But I dont have on blinders when I read.[/I]:) :001_tongu

Actually I think in the long run Islam will in fact accept the fact that Israel exists because they will have no other choice. The radical element of Islam will not accept it, but eventually that radical element will burn itself out. I don't know when that will happen, only that in the end it will happen. I suspect there will be more bloodshed first, but it will happen.

The Islamic populations are in one respect no different from the Israeli population. They love their kids no less than Israelis love their kids. They love their elders no less than Israelis love theirs. Oh I know you have people like Hairball claiming all people of the Islamic faith are animals willing to scrifice their children in the name of thier religion, but frankly that is simply biullshit and only Hairball and people that think like that don't realize it. I really don't care what they think or have to say because it is so clearly fringe thinking, just as moonie is a fringe thinker on the other side of the coin.

However if Israel continues to act like a bull in a china shop everytime it is provoked it will take a long long time for the Islamic population to say enough is enough, and frankly that is what Iran, Syria, and the radicals in Palestine are hoping for. Why Israel plays into their hand evrytime is the question. Israel has adequate special forces that they could play the same game that Hezbollah and Hamas play and int he end it would work to their advantage. They would still be able to hurt those organizations but would not cause the humongous infrastructure damamge nor kill as many civilians. It would take away Hamas and Hezbollahs only advantage, namely the fact that the rest of the world is horrified by the civilian death toll being so lopsided.

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[IMG]http://www.gersbachia.com/gort%5Fanim%5B1%5D.gif[/IMG]
The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Ahh, but Gort Iran once again trumped that situation with the firing of rockets by the hundreds everyday. This ensured Isreal would not fight patiently.

I have sat here through this conflict amazed at Iran's brilliance. They had this planned to a "T".
It is hard to beat an enemy when he is twice as ruthless, and willing to sacrifice more lives than you are to win....something America should have learned in Vietnam...and is still learning in Iraq.

You're an appeaser, du Bois, and I'm not.

Also, note that the 'tone' of the thread was set by an Israeli, Gideon Levy, not me. I'm just making you aware of what Israelis are thinking.

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[I]668.....the neighbour of the beast.[/I]

How do you know what israelis are thinking moon ?

Are you one and in that nation ?

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[img]http://www.vosaclub.org/uploads/1013716823439885ec82c03.jpg [/img]

[B]Hardcore Conservative ![/B]

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

[I]I'm a country Bumpkin Im not as articulate or educated as some here. But I dont have on blinders when I read.[/I]:) :001_tongu

What is that supposed to mean? You can't even make up a decent insult, let alone speak for the Palestinians.

The fact that you said it, already reduces the credibility of your thread.


WEB

Islam is not a government or person. It's a religion. It cannot accept or reject anything. I suspect you are blaming things you don't understand on religion.

Much of the population in Israel is Islamic.

You are a liar. I've never made that claim. In fact I've said just the opposite.

That's pretty fucking pathetic when you must lie to non-prove your point. That's even more pathetic than the anti-zionists claiming victory every time the get their ass kicked by Israel.


Methinks you just base your opinion on lies you have told yourself over and over again until you believe they are truth. Gort, clearly that kind of behavior can only foster ignorance.

I think you need to learn some history and apply logic.

Politics in the region is like a chess game, sometimes you are forced to move because you are in check. That is being prudent, not failing.

It's not a failure on Israels part. The destruction of Lebanon does not hurt Israel. It has only strengthened international resolve to take care of the Hezbollah problem. Israel has shown alot of restraint. It could have just nuked Damascus, Beirut and Teheran and been totally justified under international law in doing so.

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There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. -- Rummy

Wise words from a wise man.

Are you suggesting the Israelis won? that's a funny way of winning, but there is an old saying that it aint over til the fat lady sings, and I HAVEN'T HEARD A PEEP YET.

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A mugawump is a bird who sits on a fence with his mug on one side and his wump on the other--[COLOR="red"][B]
A fence sitter-upon[/B][/COLOR] IE: a moderate/independent:

[COLOR="Blue"]Any fool can find fault, but it takes a thinking person to find the appropriate solution[/COLOR]

Hairball by now we have all gotten used to your tactics and rants. Call someone a liar then go to the nuclear option. Talk to the hand hairball, talk to the hand.

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[IMG]http://www.gersbachia.com/gort%5Fanim%5B1%5D.gif[/IMG]
The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu