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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2006, 03:34 AM
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moon moon is offline
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Default The upside of Israel's failure

Quote:
........., the failure in this little war might teach us an important lesson for the future, and maybe influence us to change our ways and language, the language we speak to our neighbors with violence and force. The axiom that "Israel cannot allow itself a defeat on the battlefield" has already been exposed as a nonsensical cliche: Failure might not only help Israel greatly but, as a bonus, it might teach the Americans the important lesson that there is no point in pushing Israel into military adventures.


Maybe all that won't happen now because we have discovered first-hand that the IDF's power is much more limited than we thought and were told. Our deterrent capacity might now work in the opposite direction. Israel, hopefully, will think twice before going into another dangerous military adventure. That is comforting news. On the other hand, it is true that there is the danger the IDF will want to restore its lost honor on the backs of the helpless Palestinians. It didn't work in Bint Jbail, so we'll show them in Nablus.
Gideon Levy


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749680.html


Now perhaps the world community will help protect the soft targets. There should be a fresh resolution to remove the Zionists from Gaza, a resolution which America will support, a resolution indicating the revival of concern for justice in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, Israeli go home.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2006, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: The upside of Israel's failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Gideon Levy


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749680.html


Now perhaps the world community will help protect the soft targets. There should be a fresh resolution to remove the Zionists from Gaza, a resolution which America will support, a resolution indicating the revival of concern for justice in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, Israeli go home.

Good to see that you are consistant in your use of propaganda....Your 'Israelli go home' suggestion, smacks of Israel just do nothing when attacked....You are living in blotto world.


j-mac
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.


- John Stuart Mill
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2006, 07:25 AM
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Maxture Maxture is offline
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Default Re: The upside of Israel's failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-mac
Good to see that you are consistant in your use of propaganda....Your 'Israelli go home' suggestion, smacks of Israel just do nothing when attacked....You are living in blotto world.


j-mac
Like it or not, they have just accepted to go home from Lebanon, with their tails between their legs. And they have accepted, in principle, to go home from the parts of Lebanon which they kept occupied before the present conflict, and from parts of the Golan Heights.

Of course Israel doesn't do "nothing", but when defeated its occupation troops have to go home.
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Old 08-13-2006, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: The upside of Israel's failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxture
Like it or not, they have just accepted to go home from Lebanon, with their tails between their legs. And they have accepted, in principle, to go home from the parts of Lebanon which they kept occupied before the present conflict, and from parts of the Golan Heights.

Of course Israel doesn't do "nothing", but when defeated its occupation troops have to go home.

Well, one has to be sure that Israel's defeat is comming. I think that res.1701 will be a disaster and much like any other resolution the UN tries will end up in failure. If you want an end to this then take the muzzle off of Israel and let them use full capabality to defeat these thugs.


j-mac
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.


- John Stuart Mill
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Old 08-13-2006, 07:40 AM
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Maxture Maxture is offline
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Default Re: The upside of Israel's failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-mac
If you want an end to this then take the muzzle off of Israel and let them use full capabality to defeat these thugs.
j-mac
They tried, and they were defeated.

In theory, Israel could go on fighting until either its last soldier had been killed and its last Merkava tank had been knocked out by Hezbollah, or until the last enemy combatant in Lebanon had been killed. But it doesn't work in that way.

An state can go on fighting not until "the last man and the last round" (as some fools in history have believed), but until either its goals are met, or the capacity to continue the war cracks. Israel has reached the latter point.

Israel had no other choice but to agree to the humiliating pece accord. That's the fate of the defeated. Had it not been for the UN - which enabled Israel's ally the USA to act in order to soften up the "document of surrender" - Israel would probably eventually have suffered even worse. Olmert should be grateful to the UN.
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Old 08-13-2006, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: The upside of Israel's failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxture
They tried, and they were defeated.

In theory, Israel could go on fighting until either its last soldier had been killed and its last Merkava tank had been knocked out by Hezbollah, or until the last enemy combatant in Lebanon had been killed. But it doesn't work in that way.

An state can go on fighting not until "the last man and the last round" (as some fools in history have believed), but until either its goals are met, or the capacity to continue the war cracks. Israel has reached the latter point.

Israel had no other choice but to agree to the humiliating pece accord. That's the fate of the defeated. Had it not been for the UN - which enabled Israel's ally the USA to act in order to soften up the "document of surrender" - Israel would probably eventually have suffered even worse. Olmert should be grateful to the UN.

Not at all....It is true that Israel made a mistake in delaying the ground assault, and tried to limit that assault in its prosicution. But when the day is done, and I'd say a month from now we will see a full out assualt because of the failure of UN capabilities to enforce anything they spew. Not to mention their sintement against anything Israel to begin with...


j-mac
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.


- John Stuart Mill
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2006, 07:54 AM
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Default Re: The upside of Israel's failure

The resolution will be ignored by both parties within hours, I'd guess, unless the Israeli losses reported today are far greater than they're letting on.

The only thing that will stop this Zionist regime is lots of casualties. The bully has faltered and the neighbourhood has taken note.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2006, 08:11 AM
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Hank Hank is offline
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Default Re: The upside of Israel's failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Gideon Levy


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749680.html


Now perhaps the world community will help protect the soft targets. There should be a fresh resolution to remove the Zionists from Gaza, a resolution which America will support, a resolution indicating the revival of concern for justice in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, Israeli go home.
Do ya’ll like, get instruction on the next "Way to look at it" blitz from the head moonbat or something?
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Old 08-13-2006, 08:13 AM
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CHUQ CHUQ is offline
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Default Re: The upside of Israel's failure

moon wrote Now perhaps the world community will help protect the soft targets. There should be a fresh resolution to remove the Zionists from Gaza, a resolution which America will support, a resolution indicating the revival of concern for justice in the Middle East.

It is a thought but a reslution like that will never fly for Israel's protector willnot allow it.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2006, 08:17 AM
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Maxture Maxture is offline
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Default Re: The upside of Israel's failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
The resolution will be ignored by both parties within hours, I'd guess, unless the Israeli losses reported today are far greater than they're letting on.

The only thing that will stop this Zionist regime is lots of casualties. The bully has faltered and the neighbourhood has taken note.
Two things have contributed to the IDF defeat in Lebanon:

1. The failure to meet any of its goals.

2. The heavy casualties.

We don't know if Israel is so desperate that it hides its own losses.

Yesterday alone, at least 24 IDF soldiers were admitted killed, at least 84 were injured, one helicopter was shot down and 21 Merkava tanks were destroyed on the battlefield.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...290118,00.html

I think those losses are bad enough, and definitely more than Israel can cope with. Five more days with such losses and we would probably see a huge public uprising in Israel, which immediately would topple the government.

Israel has the equivalence of 1/45 of the population of the USA. Imagine the USA taking 45 times those losses - nearly 5,000 casualties in a single day - and this continuing each day for several days. Imagine what the public opinion would do to a president responsible for that!

In view of all this, I don't think we can expect Israel to take the initiative to resume fighting. Maybe Hezbollah will if it allows its victory to get to its head. The fact that Hezbollah today has subject Israel to the heaviest rocket barrage since the war started is an omnious sign, and the most detestable and unnessessary of all of Hezbollah's killings. Let's hope that it does not signify a "phase 2" with the aim of broadening the "war of liberation". That would only drive the Israeli public into the chauvinist camp and block the possibility to a peaceful solution. No one but the reactionaries would gain from such a policy. But since Hezbollah agreed to the UN Resolution, I think there is reason to hope that there will be peace now.
 

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